Author Topic: Proof of observed times.  (Read 6214 times)

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Re: Proof of observed times.
« Reply #15 on: »
Do you have an Android phone? Google timeline may well have recorded your movements

Re: Proof of observed times.
« Reply #16 on: »
Hopefully my photo of the pcn will be attached.
You've obscured your VRM - why?

We can't look at photos for ourselves.

Re: Proof of observed times.
« Reply #17 on: »
Do you have an Android phone? Google timeline may well have recorded your movements
Thanks for your reply, great idea and not one that I’d thought of. Sadly, I use an iPhone.
I did wonder if my vehicles ecu could be used to provide evidence. Not sure the hassle of getting that information, if it’s possible, is worth the £25 though.

Re: Proof of observed times.
« Reply #18 on: »
Hopefully my photo of the pcn will be attached.
You've obscured your VRM - why?

We can't look at photos for ourselves.

Old habits…..👍
Not sure how the VRM would be relevant to my query tbh, but appreciate your feedback.

Re: Proof of observed times.
« Reply #19 on: »
Photos are never taken at first observation only valve positions recorded.
The reason for this is the CEO might be logging in lots of vehicles and taking photos of all would use too much disc space on his hand held computer.
But at the original start of observation your VRM and valve positions would be inputted in to HHC and the time of this input CANNOT be changed .
photos are then taken at time of issue of PCN to prove that valve positions are the same as initially inputted into HHC also photos of car vrm , signs and lines

Re: Proof of observed times.
« Reply #20 on: »
^ Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated.

I've challenged it and the response will interesting, unless the CEO admits their error, it will come down to their word against mine.

If that's the case, as has already been stated, on the balance of probabilities an Adjudicator would almost certainly find against me.

It's an odd scenario for sure and ordinarily I'd have had a witness or witnesses to prove my whereabouts etc. Sods law!

Re: Proof of observed times.
« Reply #21 on: »
The CEO can’t invent a start time for observations .
Once he inputs your VRM and valve positions into his or her hand held computer it registers time so it can’t be changed to suit him at a later time .
So the CEO cannot lie about start of observation

Re: Proof of observed times.
« Reply #22 on: »
You came to the forum asking for help.

As early as Post #2 you were directed to read the forum procedures which are there for a reason.

You have not posted what's required i.e. we're still missing the VRM and back of the PCN.

You have submitted your own challenge.

Hey ho.

Re: Proof of observed times.
« Reply #23 on: »
Hello,

I am a traffic warden in London, and have been watching this forum with interest.

This is the first thread where I feel that I may have a unique contribution to make.

I observe cars under contravention code 30F, and to be honest with you, do not record the valve position, because it is too cumbersome a task.

On my handheld, I record when I first 'observe' the vehicle. I note the 'make' and 'colour' of the vehicle. I note the location of the vehicle e.g. outside Tesco Express, then save the observation.

In a shift, I can 'observe' 100 vehicles in the free parking bays, but only issue a PCN to a couple of them.

It is incredibly arduous to record lots and lots of information in an observation that I am most likely going to discard.

I can imagine that it sucks for the motorist, who may have doubts about when I really did start observing their vehicle. However, I tell them that falsifying an observation is a very serious matter, so I would like to think that colleagues don't resort to that.

I was trained to take photos after the contravention has occurred and taught that it is incorrect to take photos of a vehicle that - at that point - is not offending.

One caveat I will mention is that every local authority does seem to have its own modus operandi. With that in mind, I suspect that another warden could come along and say something entirely different from me.
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Re: Proof of observed times.
« Reply #24 on: »
@
theronstar

Welcome to the forum! I'm sure yout contribuitions will be welcome.
As this section is for live PCNs (until they are hopefully cancelled!), This thread will be moved to the Flame Pit.

Apologies to all! I moved this thread in error and will return it to Civil PCNs.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2025, 05:50:49 pm by John U.K. »

Re: Proof of observed times.
« Reply #25 on: »
You came to the forum asking for help.

As early as Post #2 you were directed to read the forum procedures which are there for a reason.

You have not posted what's required i.e. we're still missing the VRM and back of the PCN.

You have submitted your own challenge.

Hey ho.

Thanks for your reply, I did indeed ask for help. Specifically about how a CEO make notes etc. on first observation of a vehicle.

Genuinely intrigued as to how the VRM is relevant? It has been correctly entered on the PCN as has the make and colour.

Re: Proof of observed times.
« Reply #26 on: »
Hello,

I am a traffic warden in London, and have been watching this forum with interest.

This is the first thread where I feel that I may have a unique contribution to make.

I observe cars under contravention code 30F, and to be honest with you, do not record the valve position, because it is too cumbersome a task.

On my handheld, I record when I first 'observe' the vehicle. I note the 'make' and 'colour' of the vehicle. I note the location of the vehicle e.g. outside Tesco Express, then save the observation.

In a shift, I can 'observe' 100 vehicles in the free parking bays, but only issue a PCN to a couple of them.

It is incredibly arduous to record lots and lots of information in an observation that I am most likely going to discard.

I can imagine that it sucks for the motorist, who may have doubts about when I really did start observing their vehicle. However, I tell them that falsifying an observation is a very serious matter, so I would like to think that colleagues don't resort to that.

I was trained to take photos after the contravention has occurred and taught that it is incorrect to take photos of a vehicle that - at that point - is not offending.

One caveat I will mention is that every local authority does seem to have its own modus operandi. With that in mind, I suspect that another warden could come along and say something entirely different from me.

Thank you so much for your input.

I doubt that the CEO intentionally falsified the time, as you say that is a very serious matter. My thinking was that it was most likely to be an error on the touch screen.

Sadly, I have no proof, which is 'Sods Law' as ordinarily I'd have had multiple witnesses as to my whereabouts. As such it's my word against theirs. BANES have yet to officially respond, but in my experience they always take a long time to do so and stand firm. Which is why I have had to defeat them four times so far at adjudication.

Re: Proof of observed times.
« Reply #27 on: »
The hand held computer is like a mobile smartphone where the time is live and correct all the time just like your phone.
So when the CEO enters your car reg (VRM) at start of observation he doesn’t enter the time it is automatically there on the HHC , so no chance of error on touching screen regarding start of observation.
By the way I am a retired CEO but now will use my experience to explain and help forum users on here if I can.

Re: Proof of observed times.
« Reply #28 on: »
Good to have hands-on experience.

In short, and on the balance of probabilities, the OP is incorrect in casting aspersions on the CEO's timings!

Re: Proof of observed times.
« Reply #29 on: »
The hand held computer is like a mobile smartphone where the time is live and correct all the time just like your phone.
So when the CEO enters your car reg (VRM) at start of observation he doesn’t enter the time it is automatically there on the HHC , so no chance of error on touching screen regarding start of observation.
By the way I am a retired CEO but now will use my experience to explain and help forum users on here if I can.

Thank you so much, that’s massively helpful and exactly the information I was looking for.
Will wait and see what response I eventually get from the council. I still don’t believe I was parked at that time, but thanks to your input, challenging the CEO’s input is not an option.
Faulty equipment could be a slight possibility I guess, but again I have no proof and even it was, the council aren’t likely to admit it.
Thanks again.