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Hi,

I hope you can help. I received a council parking fine (PCN) and my informal appeal was rejected. Is it worth keeping going based on the following or do I not have a leg to stand on...?

In my informal appeal rejection, they write "Where you were parked is within the boundary of the Eastlands Past this Point residents permit scheme. A past this point permit scheme means that to park on a street, you must have a valid permit for the vehicle. These streets are indicated by signs at the entrance; however, they do not have marked parking bays, allowing for flexible parking for permit holders during designated times. Non-permit holders can only park for a limited time in specific, marked bays within the scheme. A past the point sign is in place at the street you parked and you have not passed an “end of permit area” sign. As your vehicle did not have a valid permit the PCN was issued correctly. You have stated you did not see any signs. Please note, there is a permit holders only sign on Holt Town as you enter from Beswick Steet. Additionally, there are further signs on entry points to the Eastlands permit zones. All signage is in place and complies with current legislation.You have stated you did not see any signs. Please note, there is a permit holders only sign on Holt Town as you enter from Beswick Steet. Additionally, there are further signs on entry points to the Eastlands permit zones."

My complaint is that the physical street I parked on (to my best assumption, it looks like a street) by the tram stop had no signage or marked bays nor, crucially, residents (I was flanked by a wall then the raised tram stop). They refer to signage and marked bays on "entry/exit points" of this scheme on distinctly different streets or areas, literally around corners out of the range of vision. I remember walking up and down this street to satisfy myself I could park freely.

Whilst they say this all complies, I genuinely wonder if it really would be upheld if I pursued this? This could appear unreasonably hard for most drivers to work out where, I imagine, an audit of where these PCNs are generated may indicate this being a hot spot.

Thank you,

Ross

I apologise, I was rushing due to the extra 14 day deadline to pay £35 not £70 since I have tried to appeal myself to the council. Sorry if I should not have. I originally tried the Money Saving Expert Forum and someone kindly told me to try here, so I wish I had discovered ftla.uk sooner.

I have read the link and hopefully I have provided enough details below.  By means of an update, I stated that I appealed to the council, my rational was rejected (and their reasons above) via email and pdf attached letter on 21st May, I replied to them again on 28th May (details again in original post but I can post evidence if needed) to challenge aspects of their rejection, which was again rejected. i tried to pay by midnight on the extra 14 days given (so end of 4th June when I posted here originally) and...their payment portal kept glitching. So it is now £70 and I wish to challenge at the Notice to Owner stage (if I am correct here?)

Council name: Manchester City Council
The alleged contravention (summarise - no need to quote in full): "12. Parked in a residents or shared use parking place without clearly displaying either a permit or voucher or pay and display ticket."
Location: Holt Town (Manchester M40 7FQ. Holt Town is a tram stop on the East Manchester Line of Greater Manchester's light-rail Metrolink system).

If you turned off Ashton New Road onto Beswick Street, then right into Holt Town, you would have passed this sign:-



Yes, one sign, high up and likely to be missed, but like all these council scams, is legal.
If you came a different way, please provide a GSV link to the location, and tell us how you got there from the main road.

Main point to make from your narrative is that if Manchester are demanding the full £70, it is now a total no-brainer to take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, because the penalty remains the same, and there are no additional costs whatsoever. On the other hand, Manchester council have to prepare an evidence pack and pay the adjudication fee. So make them do some work for  their dosh.

Your main point can be the total inadequacy of the signage for a restriction that has no other signs warning the motorist other than this single sign. The council have a duty under Regulation 18 (1)(a) of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 to erect adequate signage advising of the restriction. Here it is quite laughably inadequate in my opinion, there are no repeater signs at all, just this single sign.

Further to the above, this image shows pretty much where I was parked if the car was facing the other way. So I was past Teer Street near to Weston Street on Holt Town.

https://imgpile.com/p/orHZ7A0

Thank you. Yes, I am prepared to do it on principle...as long as I am not risking more than £70!

Thank you

Thank you. I disagree as the street I parked on has no signs, is not residential, is quiet, has no road markings. The signage on different streets is small. The issue is whether the council can successfully defend this.

I originally tried to pay the extended 'discounted' charge last minute, as I had recently discovered this website as a resource and was hoping to gain clarity. As midnight approached, I decided to pay the half price fee but their payment portal glitched (screenshot attached). I emailed the council about putting the fee back to half due to the glitch but no response. Since then, I am persuaded that this is worth fighting, even if I pay £70 in the end and not £35.

I attach screenshots of their first response to my appeal (21st May), my email follow up (28th May) and their next response, sticking to their guns, on 2nd June.

All Google Street Views are above and the previous forum member's information.

Yes, I am prepared to do it on principle

I'm struggling to see this. You parked on an unmarked length of highway less than 1/2 mile from the Etihaad Stadium and adjacent to a tram stop and yet you didn't expect it to be subject to parking controls?

Doesn't happen, I'm afraid.

Also, earlier in the thread you were happy to pay the discount.

But you are where you are. Would you please post their reply(ies)(your transposed version omits important details like date and offer to accept the lower payment). As per others, it's probable that the discount would be re-offered

IMO, the sign is perfectly clear, compliant with regs as regards content and placed correctly*.

*- if the zone has an entrance at this point.

Yes indeed, but the zone has been very badly signed, in my opinion.