Author Topic: Procedure for PCN not received on windshield?  (Read 212 times)

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Procedure for PCN not received on windshield?
« on: »
Is there a separate procedure for when a parking PCN was not received under the windshield wiper, but an NtO was received later on?

The intention is to "reset" back to informal stage to reclaim the initial discount and have the chance to make the initial representation.

I have used a TE9 form in the past, but that was for NTO not received I thought

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Re: Procedure for PCN not received on windshield?
« Reply #1 on: »
Sorry, but we need much more information before meaningful advice can be given. So please read this and update your thread accordingly: -
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Have you responded to the Notice to Owner ? If you haven't you have blown your appeal options out of the window.

Re: Procedure for PCN not received on windshield?
« Reply #2 on: »
There is a week left to respond to the NtO, but the point was that we missed the opportunity to make the initial discounted representation for the 14 days after the windshield ticket was received.

Is there anything we can do to get that back?

Otherwise, the plan will be to tackle the PCN as if starting from NTO stage, and I will definitely update my thread accordingly.

Re: Procedure for PCN not received on windshield?
« Reply #3 on: »
Nothing to lose by appealing - most authorities will re-offer the discount if they reject the appeal.  If not, then you might as well take them to the adjudicator as there are no additional costs for you. 

Re: Procedure for PCN not received on windshield?
« Reply #4 on: »
The intention is to "reset" back to informal stage to reclaim the initial discount and have the chance to make the initial representation.

Not possible, as others have said.

The recipient of the NTO must make formal reps in which they can say that, although the PCN was served, it was not on the vehicle when the driver returned. 

Is the NTO addressed to you by name and have you looked at the council's photos? Pl post the NTO and leave in all except the addressee's details pl.

Re: Procedure for PCN not received on windshield?
« Reply #5 on: »
Thank you for the replies. I see that I can no longer modify my original post, so I will create a new post regarding the appeal.

Re: Procedure for PCN not received on windshield?
« Reply #6 on: »
Thank you for the replies. I see that I can no longer modify my original post, so I will create a new post regarding the appeal.

No, continue to add to this thread. Attempting a new thread for this case will resukt in the threads being merged. (Forum rule, one case, one thread.)

Re: Procedure for PCN not received on windshield?
« Reply #7 on: »
Simple question: what does the website show?
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Procedure for PCN not received on windshield?
« Reply #8 on: »
62, Parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part of a road other than a carriageway

PCN image 1

PCN image 2

Served 7th May, so I believe we have until end of day tomorrow before the 28 days is up

Google Maps Link:
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps. · google.co.uk


Album with the 6 photos in the PCN evidence:
ceo1-6 album hosted in ImgBB
ImgBB · ibb.co



------

The only point we have to make is that the space to park between the lamp post and the tree is really right, such that anything other than a hatchback would not fit, and even a hatchback would struggle for some time to get it parked there.

Supposedly, it should be possible to park on the road instead of mounting the kerb, but we have seen on more than one occasion someone get a ticket for that too.

I apologise for the crummy photos of the PCN. Half the difficulty is that this is my wife's PCN and I am trying to see what's possible in contesting it.

Re: Procedure for PCN not received on windshield?
« Reply #9 on: »
I'm searching the tribunal register of appeals for anything that I can use as ammunition. Is there an easy way to search for similar contraventions? There is a contravention field on the search query, but it seems that the values are not standardised.

-
londontribunals.org.uk

Re: Procedure for PCN not received on windshield?
« Reply #10 on: »
Bump - today is the last day  :-\

----

Sent off an appeal with an AI-assisted document
« Last Edit: June 04, 2026, 10:10:17 pm by neverpaying »

Re: Procedure for PCN not received on windshield?
« Reply #11 on: »
Appeal sent on 04/06

I make formal representations against the Notice to Owner for contravention code 62: “parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part of a road other than the carriageway.”
The location is subject to a sign stating “In marked bays only”, with dashed bay markings on the carriageway/raised kerb. I do not dispute that there is signage at the location. However, I do dispute that the authority has proved that the alleged position of the vehicle amounted to a contravention.

A) The authority must prove the legal extent of the permitted footway-parking area:
Footway parking in London is prohibited by default unless the authority has created a lawful exemption for the relevant location. Where the council relies on a sign and bay markings to say that footway parking is permitted only within a specific marked area, the council must prove that the marked area corresponds with the legal exemption.
A sign and dashed line do not, by themselves, prove the legal boundary of the exemption. I therefore require the council to produce the relevant footway-parking resolution, authorisation, plan, schedule, or other legal document showing:
a. that footway parking is lawfully permitted at this exact location;
b. the precise extent of the permitted area;
c. that the dashed bay markings relied on by the CEO are the legal boundary of that permitted area; and
d. that the alleged wheel position was outside that legally permitted area, not merely alleged to be outside a painted line.
If the council cannot produce this evidence, it has not proved that the alleged contravention occurred.

B) The marked bay is physically impracticable because of fixed street furniture:
The marked bay at this location is constrained by fixed street furniture, specifically a lamp post and a tree. The available space between them is extremely limited. The layout makes it difficult for a vehicle to use the raised-kerb bay while remaining perfectly aligned within the dashed markings.
The alleged issue was, at most, a marginal wheel position caused by the impractical layout of the bay. This was not a case of a vehicle deliberately parking on the footway outside any permitted area. The council has created and maintained a marked footway-parking bay in a position where ordinary use is made difficult by fixed obstructions.
If the council rejects these representations, it is requested to address this point specifically and explain how a motorist is expected to comply with the bay markings at this exact location, given the positioning of the lamp post and tree. The council should also provide the CEO photographs and any site photographs it relies upon to show that the vehicle was materially outside the permitted area.

C) Inconsistent enforcement at this location creates uncertainty:
I am also concerned that the council’s enforcement position at this location appears inconsistent. The sign directs motorists to use the marked raised-kerb bays only. However, it has been observed, on more than one occasion, that vehicles parked fully on the carriageway, where there appears to be no separate waiting restriction, have also received PCNs.
This creates obvious uncertainty for motorists. On the one hand, motorists are directed towards a physically constrained raised-kerb bay. On the other hand, parking fully on the carriageway appears also to be treated as unlawful in practice, despite there being no clear carriageway restriction apparent at the location.
The council is therefore requested to check its own enforcement records and explain its enforcement policy at this location. In particular, the council should explain what lawful parking position it says was available to motorists at this location, and whether vehicles parked wholly on the carriageway are also subject to enforcement there.
This point is relevant because it supports my case that the parking arrangement is unclear, inconsistently enforced, and not adequately communicated to motorists.


Evidence requested if the council rejects these representations:
If the council is not prepared to cancel the PCN, I require it to provide the following with the Notice of Rejection:
a.   the relevant footway-parking resolution or authorisation;
b.   any plan, map, schedule, or drawing showing the exact legal boundary of the permitted footway-parking area;
c.   evidence that the dashed markings at this location correspond with that legal boundary;
d.   an explanation of how the council says a vehicle can reasonably use the marked bay given the lamp post and tree; and
e.   an explanation of the council’s enforcement approach to vehicles parked wholly on the carriageway at this location.
The council must consider these representations properly and address the substance of each point. A generic response stating only that footway parking is prohibited in London, or that the vehicle was outside markings, will not be adequate because the issue is whether the council has proved the legal boundary of the exemption and whether the marked bay is reasonably usable and clearly enforceable at this exact location.
For the reasons above, the alleged contravention has not been proved and the PCN should be cancelled.

Re: Procedure for PCN not received on windshield?
« Reply #12 on: »
NoR received 19/06

> I refer to the representations made by you against the service of the above Penalty Charge Notice.

Your representations have been considered by this office, but after full consideration of the representations made and all other circumstances relating to the service of the Penalty Charge Notice, I have to advise you that grounds for representation against the Penalty Charge Notice have not been established. This notice is served as a formal Notice of Rejection of your representations.

Your vehicle was observed in Woodcote Avenue at 16:18:29 hours Parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part of a road other than a carriageway.

Your comments have been noted, however, your vehicle was not parked correctly within the designated marked bay. Motorists are expected to park fully within the designated bay markings, even when other vehicles park inconsiderately in adjoining bays. Vehicles are not permitted to park in this manner. Please be advised that footway parking bays are specifically measured to ensure that the aforementioned nuisances do not occur. It is therefore essential that vehicles park within the bay’s markings.

Footway parking in London is prohibited by virtue of section 15 of the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974, unless specifically permitted by the local authority.

At the location in question, footway parking is permitted only within clearly marked areas, as indicated by the sign “In marked bays only” and the dashed bay markings on the raised kerb. Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) evidence confirms that your vehicle was parked with one or more wheels outside the marked bay, and therefore outside the area where footway parking is permitted.

As such, the vehicle was parked in contravention of code 62.

You have requested evidence of the legal basis for the permitted footway parking area.
The council confirms that the location is covered by a valid footway parking exemption. The marked bays on site indicate the extent of this exemption and are installed in accordance with the [cut off]

For enforcement purposes, the marked bay lines define the limits of the permitted area, and vehicles must park wholly within those limits. The CEO’s photographs demonstrate that your vehicle was not parked wholly within the marked bay.

You have stated that the marked bay is impracticable due to the presence of a lamp post and a tree.

The council has considered this point, however:-

The bay remains usable by vehicles of standard dimensions when positioned appropriately;
The presence of street furniture does not exempt a motorist from complying with restrictions;
Drivers are expected to ensure that their vehicle is parked wholly within the marked bay before leaving it.

While the council acknowledges that some locations present spatial constraints, this does not invalidate the restriction or permit parking outside the marked limits.

You suggest that any encroachment was minimal:-

However, for the purposes of enforcement, a vehicle must be fully within the marked bay. Any part of a wheel outside the permitted area constitutes a contravention.
There is no tolerance threshold applicable in such circumstances.

You have also raised concerns regarding enforcement of vehicles parked on the carriageway:-

The council enforces parking restrictions in accordance with applicable traffic orders and legislation. Instances of other vehicles may differ depending on the specific circumstances, including the presence or absence of restrictions at the precise location where those vehicles are parked.

Each case is considered on its own merits, and any perceived inconsistency does not invalidate the PCN issued in this instance.

Please note that the Highway Code, Edition 2007, page 82 does state you must not park partially or wholly on the pavement in London and should not do so elsewhere unless signs permit.

[...]

Unless you appeal to the London Tribunals as described above, you must pay the Penalty Charge Notice of £140.00 within 28 days from the service of this letter. Failure to pay may result in the service of a Charge Certificate by the Council which will increase the charge due by 50% to £210.00. If the increased Penalty Charge is not then paid within a further 14 days, the Council may apply to the County Court to recover the charge as if it were a debt payable under a County Court Order.

Re: Procedure for PCN not received on windshield?
« Reply #13 on: »
Ok, so no re-offer of the discount means it is now a total no-brainer to register an appeal at London Tribunals and let an adjudicator decide. The penalty remains the same and there are no additional costs whatsoever.

Re: Procedure for PCN not received on windshield?
« Reply #14 on: »
A NOR must state mandatory information so please can we see the original?
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"