Author Topic: Possible Procedural Impropriety on NoR - can someone confirm for me?  (Read 1504 times)

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Intentionally leaving details of the EA out of my post as I intend to follow it up myself if experts consider it worthy

Received a PCN last week for a 53C. The PCN states the charge is £80 discounted, £160 after discount period, and £240 in the event payment isn't made or a representation isn't submitted. I submitted a rep.

Timelines as follows:

12/06/25: Alleged contravention
19/06/25: PCN issued
20/06/25: PCN served
24/06/25: Representation submitted
24/06/25: NoR dated and posted
25/06/25: NoR served

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On the NoR, under the heading "If you do nothing", it's written “If you have taken no action, before the end of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this Notice of Rejection, we may serve a Charge Certificate increasing the charge from £130 to £195.”

That appears wrong for 2 reasons:
1. Overlapping timelines: By using the words "before the end of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this Notice of Rejection", the notice implies the council can send a Charge Certificate during the 28-day window, i.e. on day 1–28. That contradicts the statute, which requires them to wait until the 28-day period has expired

2. Mis-stating the charge amount: I've done some research and can see London’s higher-band PCNs went up on 7 April 2025, so the correct wording should be **£160 increasing to £240**.  It seems they’re still using the pre-April 2025 template (£130 → £195).


Questions

1. Should the NoR not have made use of the word "before the end of 28 days..."
2. Is it correct to think the NoR figure should match the £160 → £240 band? 
3. Has anyone here succeeded on a similar “wrong amount” argument recently? 
4. Would you appeal now or wait to see if they serve a CC, or try and run down as much of the 56-day clock as possible before putting in the appeal to reduce the chances of the EA withdrawing their NoR and reissuing a corrected NoR which I can't appeal.

Thanks in advanced.

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« Last Edit: June 25, 2025, 01:30:15 pm by GRYOUT »

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Re: Possible Procedural Impropriety on NoR - can someone confirm for me?
« Reply #1 on: »
Please post up the postal PCN you received and the Notice of Rejection and the text of your representation against the PCN.

Just redact your name and address / email address where present. Please leave everything else visible.

All as per the instructions in the READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR CASE!** sticky post at the top of this forum.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2025, 01:01:17 pm by Enceladus »

Re: Possible Procedural Impropriety on NoR - can someone confirm for me?
« Reply #2 on: »
Yes let's see the material but the correct action is to appeal to the tribunal on the basis of a defective rejection.

Re: Possible Procedural Impropriety on NoR - can someone confirm for me?
« Reply #3 on: »
Possible scenarios:

The sum demanded in the NOR is incorrect i.e. the contravention occurred after the new mandated penalties came into effect, which would be borne out by the fact that you 'received it last week' if you are the registered keeper because otherwise if the contravention occurred before 7 April then prima facie the PCN has been served late and is invalid, or

The PCN is in respect of a pre-change contravention but your 'receipt' is due to it not being delivered direct to you, or

You are not the registered keeper, the contravention occurred before the change but was sent first to, say, a leasing company who then made successful reps following which a fresh PCN was sent to you...etc?

Is why we need the PCN with all dates and other non-personal info in place.


Re: Possible Procedural Impropriety on NoR - can someone confirm for me?
« Reply #4 on: »
I should have been clearer in my first post (which I'll update to reflect the below).

12/06/25: Alleged contravention
19/06/25: PCN issued
20/06/25: PCN served
24/06/25: Representation submitted
24/06/25: NoR dated and posted
25/06/25: NoR served

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Is there a way to share the notice privately, as I don't want to give the EA the opportunity to withdraw the NoR and reissue a corrected version (if a procedural impropriety angle exists).

I understand they have up to 56 days in which to do this if they wise up and decide to.

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« Last Edit: June 25, 2025, 01:28:18 pm by GRYOUT »

Re: Possible Procedural Impropriety on NoR - can someone confirm for me?
« Reply #5 on: »
You can PM me if you like; but, the normal procedure is to post as suggested above. Yes, I won one case re the wrong amount "subceded". Redbridge. I would not advise cutting it fine and do not know what 56 days are in this regard.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Possible Procedural Impropriety on NoR - can someone confirm for me?
« Reply #6 on: »
They can't withdraw the NoR and issue a new one. You're entitled to rely on what it says. But if it makes you feel more secure then register an appeal with the independent adjudicator. Put "detailed submission to follow" in the relevant box.

Registering an appeal might trigger a DNC, Do Not Contest.

As to which Tribunal has jurisdiction I have no idea as you have failed to disclose the required information. Not least which Enforcement Authority you are dealing with.

So once again, if you want the comprehensive advice then please read the instructions in the READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR CASE!** sticky post at the top of the forum.

Please post up the postal PCN you received and the Notice of Rejection and the text of your representation against the PCN.

Just redact your name and address / email address where present. Please leave everything else visible.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2025, 03:48:08 pm by Enceladus »

Re: Possible Procedural Impropriety on NoR - can someone confirm for me?
« Reply #7 on: »
I'll get it uploaded shortly when back home.

It'd be London Tribunals, as it's a London Borough.

I'd read that the EA has 56 days in which to issue a compliant NoR. If they realise their mistake, they could withdraw the NoR, fix it and re-issue it within 56-days of my representation being made.

Re: Possible Procedural Impropriety on NoR - can someone confirm for me?
« Reply #8 on: »
Authorities have 56 days to reply to formal representations made against parking PCNs - nothing to do with this.

They can't reissue an NOR and in any case they deal with 1000s of PCNs and while we'd hope they dip in here to learn things I doubt many do.

Re: Possible Procedural Impropriety on NoR - can someone confirm for me?
« Reply #9 on: »
We don't know whether it's a Notice of Rejection of Formal Representations or not, we haven't seen it.

By the way..the council can send a Charge Certificate during the 28-day window, i.e. on day 1–28

Correct. But they risk it being served without lawful authority if it's sent before the 28-day window closes and action is taken during its transit. It's happened and occasionally authorities have come a cropper.

Re: Possible Procedural Impropriety on NoR - can someone confirm for me?
« Reply #10 on: »
53C - buses/cycles only moving traffic contravention.

Re: Possible Procedural Impropriety on NoR - can someone confirm for me?
« Reply #11 on: »
Authorities have 56 days to reply to formal representations made against parking PCNs - nothing to do with this.

They can't reissue an NOR and in any case they deal with 1000s of PCNs and while we'd hope they dip in here to learn things I doubt many do.
In my case it's a formal representation made against a moving traffic PCN (53c).

The way I understood it, the informal representation wasn't even an option given the nature of the PCN the moving traffic type.

Re: Possible Procedural Impropriety on NoR - can someone confirm for me?
« Reply #12 on: »
53C - buses/cycles only moving traffic contravention.
53C: Failing to comply with restrictions on vehicles entering a pedestrian and cycle zone

It was a school street with restricted access at pick up time

Re: Possible Procedural Impropriety on NoR - can someone confirm for me?
« Reply #13 on: »
We don't know whether it's a Notice of Rejection of Formal Representations or not, we haven't seen it.

By the way..the council can send a Charge Certificate during the 28-day window, i.e. on day 1–28

Correct. But they risk it being served without lawful authority if it's sent before the 28-day window closes and action is taken during its transit. It's happened and occasionally authorities have come a cropper.
Yes, it's a Notice of Rejection of Representations (which is the same as a Notice of Rejection of Formal Representations I'm led to believe).

Just to clarify your last message, when you said "By the way..the council can send a Charge Certificate during the 28-day window, i.e. on day 1–28" , were you quoting my post, or were you confirming that the council are permitted to send a CC between day 1-28?

Your last message where you say "Correct" suggests that you were quoting my post and confirming that the council shouldn't be sending it out before 28 days.

Re: Possible Procedural Impropriety on NoR - can someone confirm for me?
« Reply #14 on: »
Sending is not the determinant issue, it's service.

Service is presumed 2 working days after posting. Therefore in theory a council could issue on a Thurs when the window closes on a Sunday i.e. 3 days 'early' and still be OK providing that reps weren't made on the Thurs, Fri, Sat or Sun. It's all programmed and some will be quick off the mark, others will wait until the window has closed before issuing, just to be on the safe side.

Frankly, I cannot see how a council could give consideration to the reps in such a short timeframe, but we haven't seen them. I refer to them in the third person because I get the impression that you aren't the 'respondent'.