Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hi All,
Just posted this on pepipoo and was told to post here, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hello All,

I found this site from Martin's Money parking forum. I would appreciate any help or advice.

Date of ticket: Monday the 2nd of October.
Location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/SG6E1rwkvovRNr6CA

We were on our way for a meal for my wife's birthday and we were running late. I parked at a small council run multistorey car park which used flowbird parking. I didn't have the app so I went to the machine and paid with card. Although I didn't realise at the time I typed in my car's reg and not my wife's. Although a receipt was not required, the machine it asked if I wanted one so I clicked yes. Unfortunately the machine didn't give me one (must have run out of paper) so we went about our day.
I returned to the car park later on in the day and saw that I had a ticket. The traffic warden had just done his round and was still in the carpark. I caught him up and politely asked why I had a ticket as I had paid, he asked for my reg and at that point I realised I had put in the wrong reg. Although I explained my mistake he would not cancel the parking ticket.

I appealed to the council because I thought it to be a reasonable grounds for appeal and also because i thought if I had been given a receipt from the machine there is a good chance I would've spotted my mistake.

Unfortunately they have rejected my appeal. I now realise I should've come here before my first appeal sad.gif

Here is the parking ticket: https://photos.app.goo.gl/11qKW8qKaGo5PXtQ9

This was my original appeal:
"
Hello,
Today I went with my wife and baby into town to go for a meal at lunchtime and run some errands in the city center.
Upon returning to the car I was shocked to discover we had a parking ticket.
My car has broken down and so we used my wife's car. I mistakenly entered my own car's registration (FN55JUC) instead of my wife's and had paid for 3hours parking (£3.80).
I can provide a picture of the bank transaction and also a picture of the car leaving the car park within the three hours if you require.
This was an honest mistake and I would appreciate if you could cancel the ticket.

A mitigating circumstance which may have made me realise was not getting a ticket from the machine. I requested a receipt which I would normally put on the dashboard of the car but the machine had ran out and didn't give me one.
Thank you
"
I attached the picture of 3-80 bank transaction to the appeal.

The council's response

https://photos.app.goo.gl/SQJBN1tUzxqmGam58


After receiving the response I double checked the ticket and it says the contravention is:

'parked in a car park without clearly displaying a virtual pay and display ticket or voucher or parking clock'.

I would appreciate any help or advice which could be given.

If I had been given a receipt but not noticed the wrong number plate but placed it on the dashboard would that have been sufficient to prove payment for parking, and would I have been given a ticket?

Could the argument that by not having a receipt to check if I had made a mistake, I was put at a disadvantage be valid?

Thank you in advance.
Vin

Could the argument that by not having a receipt to check if I had made a mistake, I was put at a disadvantage be valid?

It's worth mentioning.

You did not actually make an appeal, you only made an informal representation. The good news is that at the next stage you get another chance, but as you're relying on the council's discretionary power not to enforce, the representations need to be truly compelling.

For now please post up the back of the PCN, and the rest of the informal rejection.

We have a copy of Plymouth's policy here, but it's quite dated so I've asked them if they have a newer version. I will also ask for a copy of the off-street parking places order.

For reference here are the documents and the photos so we have everything in one place:

Don't worry about the discount: while the notice to owner will demand the full amount, as long as you challenge it within 14 days the rejection letter will normally reoffer the discount.

There is an arguable defect in the PCN wording, it doesn't really comply with regulation 3(1)(c) of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022, though it's not the strongest point.

For now just wait for the notice to owner and hopefully by the time it comes through, we'll have the parking places order and the latest council policy.

The Notice to Owner cannot be sent out until the 28 days to respond to the PCN have elapsed. Having said that, some councils can be very tardy in sending it out. They have 6 months to do so, but anything over 3 months can be contested on the basis of them not acting fairly and expeditiously.

For later when the NTO comes:

The City of Plymouth (Off-Street Parking Places) Order 2007
The City of Plymouth (Off-Street Parking Places) Amendment Order No. 14) 2017
The City of Plymouth (Off-Street Parking Places) Notice of Variation (No.1) 2023

Hello cp8759 and Incandescent,

I hope you're both well.

The notice to owner came through but it's addressed to my wife (she's the registered owner). It is dated as posted on the 14/11/23 but we only opened it this morning as we were away in Italy on holiday (15-21 Nov) does this change when it was served? The earliest I could've actually read it was the early hours of this morning as we flew in late to stansted and then drove back to Plymouth last night.

Please find below the link to the photos:
Page 1
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YFp4DVJaYePn5dbG9
Page 2
https://photos.app.goo.gl/KPyYYinAZo3q8AH9A
Page 3
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mJUrzVLWW7fA1guG9
Page 4
https://photos.app.goo.gl/kavcxVSgknQBENef6

What are my next steps for the appeal? What is your advice?

I was thinking of writing something like this in the body of the appeal:
---
I input the wrong registration number plate at the parking machine. From the previous informal representation I made, it was acknowledged that I had paid for parking and didn't overstay what was paid for. This was an honest mistake as I was driving my wife's car and not my own.

What was not acknowledged in the response to the original informal representation was that the machine was not giving receipts. When the machine asked if I wanted a receipt after selecting yes, no receipt was provided.

I think this parking fine is unfair because had I have been given a receipt:

1) There is a good chance that upon checking the receipt I would have noticed my mistake and bought another parking ticket.

2) If I had placed the receipt on the dashboard. This would have been proof of that parking was purchased.

----

On point 2, would this be true? If a pay and display parking ticket with the wrong number plate is displayed in your car, can you still be given a fine?

If so, surely proof of the virtual payment in retrospect should be enough?

The more I think about it the more unreasonable it seems!

Thank you in advance for your help!
Vin

Is there any mileage in the fact the sign doesn't appear to request entry of a VRM ?

Hi cp8759,

Thank you for your reply.

I have submitted the appeal. The text box which they gave for entering the appeal had a max number of characters of 1000, so I attached the letter as a pdf.

I have taken a screenshot of the appeal complete screen. It said they have 56 days to respond.

Thank you for your help

I'll let you know the outcome!

Vin