Author Topic: Penalty charge notice for U turn  (Read 3445 times)

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Penalty charge notice for U turn
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I got a PCN for a U turn after I took a left on Cranbrook Road in Ilford, there's no right turn allowed. I've attached the photo. Looks like they changed the rule this year https://publicnoticeportal.uk/notice/traffic-and-roads/67d2d1b2b51fca5734d4cbc3 but there was no signage. I would really appreciate if somebody can advise on this. Thanks.

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Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
« Reply #1 on: »
'no signage'...well, not apart from the no U turn sign on the post right in front of your car.  Presumably that is to avoid people circumventing the no right turn out of the side street.

Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
« Reply #2 on: »
Sorry I didn't notice that. Usually signage is on the left side so that people know before attempting a U turn

Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
« Reply #3 on: »
There might be other failures in the PCN, please post the full thing - both sides.

Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
« Reply #4 on: »
Two important points:

Firstly from the still image, the blue car appears to be turning before the ‘no u-turn’ sign. IMO, a contravention is only committed after you have passed the sign. 

Secondly, this seems to be another case of the ‘no u-turn’ sign being placed within a ‘puffin controlled area’ (zig-zag lines). The TSRGD prohibits the use of all road signs (with a few exceptions, eg no-right-turn) from being placed within zig-zag lines. The reason for this is that drivers need to be fully concentrating on pedestrians using the crossing. It’s no wonder you missed the sign - you were paying careful attention to the pedestrian crossing ahead of you.

Note: if this is a pelican crossing (with flashing amber phase), then the relevant regulations are TSRGD 2002, reg. 27(1). Otherwise it’s TSRGD 2016, reg. 2 and Sch 1.

Hope this helps.

Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
« Reply #5 on: »
the effect of which will be to introduce on Cranbrook Road a ban on U-turn movements in both directions between a point 26 metres south of the southern kerb-line of York Road and a point 40 metres north of the northern kerb-line of Wellesley Road.

Therefore Wellesley joins Cranbrook within the prohibited area i.e. it doesn't start at the sign in view because this is a repeater, not the mandatory sign.
But if a motorist joins a prohibited road without knowing or passing the initial sign in Cranbrook, which in this case is 40m to their right, then their first sign would be the repeater.

So we need to see the video to see whether you drove past this sign. On its own IMO it would signify the start of the prohibited area.

Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
« Reply #6 on: »
Thanks everyone, that's very helpful information. I'm attaching the full letter. The video can be viewed by the PCN, sorry I don't know how to download the video. The second page just has the usual 'making a representation' notes, so I'm not uploading that.

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Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
« Reply #7 on: »
The second page just has the usual 'making a representation' notes, so I'm not uploading that.

We're nothing if not thorough, so pl post it so that it can be checked for procedural conformity.

Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
« Reply #8 on: »

Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
« Reply #9 on: »
Here's the second page.

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Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
« Reply #10 on: »
Bump for any suggestions, thanks

Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
« Reply #11 on: »

IMO, your grounds are: There was no contravention etc.

You didn't pass the sign which was the first indication you had that a 'U-turn' was not permitted but instead turned round as soon as you saw it.

And see how they respond.

I assume there isn't any form of warning sign in Wellesley. If you're local perhaps you could take some photos and also in Cranbrook to show where the prohibition starts.

Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
« Reply #12 on: »
Thanks, we'll check the area for signage before replying

Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
« Reply #13 on: »
I received the rejection from Redbridge but can't seem to find the way to attach anymore  :-[ . So I am typing the main part where they outline the reasons:

"The signage complies with the requirements set out in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD) 2016. Although you state that the sign was placed within a puffin crossing area, the placement has been reviewed and deemed lawful and sufficient to inform drivers of the restriction.

The prohibition applies to the entire stretch of Cranbrook Road where the signs are in effect, not solely after the point at which the sign is passed.

It remains the driver’s responsibility to look out for signage whilst driving.

We have rejected your representations because your vehicle was seen performing a prohibited turn.

You now have the following options:
Pay the outstanding amount of £80 within 14 days of the date this letter was served (the date it was delivered) after this point the full charge of £160.00 will become due.

Or you can appeal to the Environment & Traffic Adjudicators (ETA, part of London Tribunals) using the enclosed appeal form. This must be done no later than 28 days of this letter being served. An Adjudicator, who is independent of the Council, will then consider your appeal and make a final decision about whether your appeal should be allowed or rejected by the Council. Their decision is legally binding on both you and the Council."

Any thoughts?

Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
« Reply #14 on: »
I received the rejection from Redbridge but can't seem to find the way to attach anymore  :-[ . So I am typing the main part

You have discovered why the use of attachments is not recommended.

The easiest way to upload docs here (unless you have no mobile phone camera) is to use yr  phone to photo each page of each doc, redacting yr name & address where it occurs, and uploading the images to an external site like  https://ibb.co/ or imgur and copy and post the BBCodes here. I use ibb with no probs. (Scroll down past the image to see the BBCode.)

Your transcription is an example of why transcriptions are deprecated - you have a missed a key feature (the date). Please post all sides of the rejection, redacting only yr name & address, and a copy of yr submission to the Council, so that it can be judged how well they considered yr submission.