Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hi guys

Appreciate the help on this one. The details are a bit specific but I'll try and give all relevant info without getting too into the weeds, and I'm sure others have experienced similar and have some useful information to share.

I moved to Haringey a few years ago and had to park in a council car park (unable to get a resident's permit). Unfortunately, just as I was planning to sell my car and was moving again, the catalytic converter was stolen while the car was in the council car park, making the car unfit to drive. Dealing with the car fell to the back of my mind a bit with the move, and when I came back a few weeks later to check on it, it had been towed away by the council from the car park - I'd had a year's parking at the car park but this had expired around the same time.

I was able to find out that the car had been towed on Jan 26th 2024 by calling the pound. I suspected that the car would have some PCNs but Haringey don't give information about PCNs over the phone, and as I had no PCN numbers (I'd not received any letters via post and the physical PCNs would've been towed with the car), nor could I get any information about potential PCNs online via their portal. I was advised by the council that my only option was to write a letter, which I did on 4th Feb 2024 (with photo evidence) - receiving no response from the council.

A year later, in Feb 2025, I got a text from CDER group saying that I had outstanding debts to settle. At first, I thought it was a scam but I contacted the number and found out it was related to Haringey PCNs - this was the first I'd heard about them as my V5C log book was still registered at an old address, so I didn't receive any letters and didn't have the physical PCNs. At this point, I wrote to the council again and this time they did reply, telling me that 7 PCNs were with CDER group and a further 14 were due to be registered as debt at the TEC. They said that my options were limited to either paying the debt to the CDER group or making a witness out of time statement with the TEC. I went ahead and made the witness out of time statements (TE7 and TE9) for the 7 PCNs that were with CDER, but recently got decisions back from the TEC for all of them that my application was refused for the reason, "Upon changing address, the applicant hasn't provided explanation or evidence as to why they failed to notify DVLA of their change of address for amendment of the V5 (log book)". My reasons for filing a witness statement out of time only said that "I had updated my driver’s licence when moving, but I was unaware of the requirement to also update the V5C". I'll attach the full document of reasons for the witness out of time statement here in case useful. For context, the debt costs of each PCN is now £130, but the CDER group are adding on ~£100 in fees for each PCN, meaning the total amount they want to collect for 7 PCNs is £1,663, and for all 21 PCNs will be around £5,000.

I obviously accept that failing to update the V5C and letting the parking pass expire were errors on me, but paying £5,000 for admin errors seems a bit crazy - I was a resident in the council at the time and a year's parking at the car park was £265!! I also contacted the council around the time of the PCNs being issued, when any amounts would've been significantly less, and they never even replied, which has contributed to the increased costs. £5,000 is a lot of money. It feels like local councils see these cases as a way to extract extra funding from motorists, which isn't right, and the weight of it is having a negative effect on me.

What are my options here? Are the council able to take the debt back from CDER group and remove the debt collection fees? Am I able to negotiate with the council or CDER group? I'll still file the witness out of time statements for the other 14 PCNs if I need to slow down the process, but I'm not hopeful of having those accepted either now.

Thanks again for the help!

Edit: additional info - Once towed, I asked the pound to destroy the car immediately, rather than after 30 days as they say they will, to avoid storage fees. The car can't be driven without the catalytic converter so I couldn't collect it and drive it away. Replacing the part costs more than the car so it wasn't worth repairing.

In total there are 23 PCNs, all between 18th December 2023 and 26th Jan 2024, all before the car was towed. I don't have any information on whether the council sold the car or not, nor any amount they received for it. I paid 2 instalments to the debt collectors totalling £472.

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There's a gaping hole here....

I was able to find out that the car had been towed on Jan 26th 2024 by calling the pound.

..and then you did what??

1. Collected the car, in which case the PCNs to which you refer might be split before and after the tow; or

2. Didn't collect the car, in which case all PCNs MUST have been served before the tow and should have been charged at the discount rate against the sale price of the car when sold by the council and the council then recover the difference BUT NOT USING the NTO, CC, OfR route, therefore TEC is irrelevant.

IMO, forget what you're doing and tell us the date ranges of the PCNs relative to the tow and whether and when you recovered the car and what you paid.

For example, before the tow ** PCNs issued between ** and **; after the tow** PCNs issued between ** and ***.

You not updating DVLA is potentially totally irrelevant because vehicle removals have their own unique procedures.

There's a gaping hole here....

I was able to find out that the car had been towed on Jan 26th 2024 by calling the pound.

..and then you did what??

1. Collected the car, in which case the PCNs to which you refer might be split before and after the tow; or

2. Didn't collect the car, in which case all PCNs MUST have been served before the tow and should have been charged at the discount rate against the sale price of the car when sold by the council and the council then recover the difference BUT NOT USING the NTO, CC, OfR route, therefore TEC is irrelevant.

IMO, forget what you're doing and tell us the date ranges of the PCNs relative to the tow and whether and when you recovered the car and what you paid.

For example, before the tow ** PCNs issued between ** and **; after the tow** PCNs issued between ** and ***.

You not updating DVLA is potentially totally irrelevant because vehicle removals have their own unique procedures.

Thanks, good point, I'll add it to the original post. I asked the pound to destroy the car immediately, rather than after 30 days as they say they will, to avoid storage fees. The car can't be driven without the catalytic converter so I couldn't collect it and drive it away. Replacing the part costs more than the car so it wasn't worth repairing.

In total there are 23 PCNs, all between 18th December 2023 and 26th Jan 2024, all before the car was towed. I don't have any information on whether the council sold the car or not, nor any amount they received for it. I paid 2 instalments to the debt collectors totalling £472.

Haringey has form in issuing multiple PCNs when it has the remedy of impounding. This is an abuse of its powers.

OP, IMO there can't be TEC because there couldn't have been NTOs because all PCNs were issued prior to the vehicle being impounded and IMO there aren't any road traffic contravention procedural remedies available to the council after they scrapped the vehicle. They've been hoist by their own petard because their abuse in issuing X PCNs when one would have sufficed has given them an unenforceable debt.

BAO is the expert, but IMO the WS grounds of 'Did not receive NTO' apply. As regards why Out of Time, how did the council get the registered keeper's address?

They got the address from the DVLA via the V5C,

Why?

According to you, the OWNER(that's you), and only the OWNER, has rights under the regulations, had instructed the council to destroy the vehicle so WHY and with what lawful authority would the council obtain an out-of-date and manifestly different address for the 'owner' from DVLA.

Fill BAO in with these details.