Author Topic: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?  (Read 5683 times)

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Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #15 on: »
You are expert at obfuscation: simplicity is not your forte!

You are making formal reps to council officers, so I suggest simple and concise.
This is not the Scopes trial or a submission to the Supreme Court.

You keep asking about the likelihood of success expressed in percentage terms, but the answer is that no-one can foresee what could happen if the authority rejected your reps.

Thanks. Didn't realise we are still with the council - thought next stage was TPT. Ok Fine - we are at Stage 3.

You think I could send the reps via email to them and the councillor - get it nipped in the bud quicker then wait for NtO's? - I don't know if I will be at home address to receive docs in the future.






🧭 Civil Enforcement Process: Regulation 9 PCN
Stage 1: PCN Issued (On-Street or Handed to Driver)
  • Trigger: CEO observes a contravention and serves the PCN directly.
  • Deadline:
  • Pay £25 within 14 days (discounted rate)
  • Pay £50 within 28 days (full rate)
  • OR make informal representations within 28 days

Stage 2: Informal Representations
  • To Whom: The enforcement authority (e.g. Solihull Council)
  • How: By post or online, using the address or portal listed on the PCN
  • Outcome:
  • If accepted → PCN cancelled
  • If rejected → You wait for the next formal stage

Stage 3: Notice to Owner (NtO)
  • Trigger: If no payment is made within 28 days, or informal reps are rejected
  • Sent To: The registered keeper of the vehicle
  • Purpose: Formal demand for payment and invitation to make formal representations

Stage 4: Formal Representations
  • To Whom: The enforcement authority, in response to the NtO
  • Deadline: Within 28 days of receiving the NtO
  • Grounds: Must be based on statutory grounds (e.g. procedural impropriety, contravention did not occur, etc.)
  • Outcome:
  • If accepted → PCN cancelled
  • If rejected → You receive a Notice of Rejection

Stage 5: Appeal to Adjudicator
  • To Whom: The Traffic Penalty Tribunal (independent adjudicator)
  • Deadline: Within 28 days of the Notice of Rejection
  • Process: Online or postal appeal; no fee required
  • Outcome:
  • If upheld → PCN cancelled
  • If dismissed → You must pay the full charge

Stage 6: Charge Certificate
  • Trigger: If no appeal is made or payment is not received
  • Consequence: Charge increases by 50% (e.g. £50 → £75)

Stage 7: Order for Recovery & Bailiff Action
  • Final Steps:
  • Debt registered at Traffic Enforcement Centre
  • Enforcement agents (bailiffs) may be instructed if unpaid
« Last Edit: October 01, 2025, 10:08:14 pm by advicewelcome »

Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #16 on: »
Just curious - if the council can't be ars*d to fix things, do they have the right to ask the public to drag their butts up and down a hill to find another kiosk machine? Now't due for the first 3hrs so assume you can't pay by phone for it.

Does faulty kiosk mean we are automatically off the hook?



« Last Edit: October 06, 2025, 12:12:36 pm by advicewelcome »

Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #17 on: »
Does faulty kiosk mean we are automatically off the hook?

No.

Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #18 on: »
Hi, nto arrived...

[img width=144.99998474121094 height=179.99998474121094]https://i.postimg.cc/BPcXfygf/page1-2025-10-11-233814-1.jpg[/img]

[img width=141.98863220214844 height=179.99998474121094]https://i.postimg.cc/sG9vC8cd/page2-2025-10-11-233855-2.jpg[/img]

[img width=140.98483276367188 height=179.99998474121094]https://i.postimg.cc/q6XzHYLd/page3-2025-10-11-233953-2.jpg[/img]

[img width=123.99620056152344 height=179.99998474121094]https://i.postimg.cc/y3XkC5Pq/page4-2025-10-11-234538-2.jpg[/img]

[img width=143.99620056152344 height=179.99998474121094]https://i.postimg.cc/GTJHnNQC/page5-2025-10-11-235042-2.jpg[/img]


Link to Gallery




Do I just send the previous response in and fingers x-ed?....






Subject: Formal Appeal Against PCN OHXXXXXXXX – Tudor Grange Leisure Centre, 24/08/2025

To Whom It May Concern,

I am writing to ascertain assistance in regard to Penalty Charge Notice OHXXXXXXXX, issued on 24/08/2025 at Tudor Grange Leisure Centre Car Park. I respectfully request cancellation of the PCN on the grounds of factual compliance, procedural unfairness, and breach of statutory duties under the Equality Act 2010 and the Traffic Management Act 2004.


1. Factual Background
A valid Pay & Display ticket was obtained at 16:03 on 24/08/2025, covering parking until 18:00.
The ticket was clearly displayed on the dashboard, as evidenced in the attached photograph.
Due to visual impairment and poor machine interface design, the vehicle registration mark (VRM) was entered incorrectly.
The Civil Enforcement Officer issued the PCN at 17:08, despite the vehicle being covered for the full duration and parked in a marked bay.

2. Compliance with the Traffic Regulation Order (TRO OH05)
The relevant clauses of the Solihull TRO OH05 state:
Clause 6(1):
 “The Driver of a vehicle using a pay and display Parking Place shall upon leaving the vehicle in the Parking Place, and on payment of a charge, purchase a Pay and Display Ticket at the level of charge and for the period required in accordance with the instructions on the machine…”
Clause 6(2):
 “The Driver shall display the Pay and Display Ticket issued in respect of the vehicle in a conspicuous position on the dashboard or fascia of the vehicle so that the ticket is clearly visible from the outside of the vehicle.”
Clause 6(3):
 “A Pay and Display Ticket shall be valid only for the vehicle in respect of which it was issued and for the Parking Place in which it was issued.”
I complied with all three clauses:
The correct charge was paid.
The ticket was displayed conspicuously.
The ticket was issued for the correct location and used by the driver of the vehicle in question.
The TRO does not explicitly require perfect VRM entry for a ticket to be valid. Enforcement based solely on machine instructions—without clear incorporation into the TRO—is legally unsound and ultra vires.

3. Equality Act 2010 – Reasonable Adjustments
Under Sections 20 and 29 of the Equality Act 2010, Solihull Council has a duty to make reasonable adjustments for disabled service users.
The machine interface was inaccessible when there are visually impairment and challenging light conditions.
The failure to accommodate this barrier, and the refusal to cancel the PCN despite being informed, constitutes indirect discrimination.
The Council must consider the Public Sector Equality Duty (Section 149) to eliminate discrimination and advance equality of opportunity.
4. Statutory Guidance – Discretion and Fairness
Under the Statutory Guidance to Local Authorities on Civil Parking Enforcement (TMA 2004, Section 87):
Quote
“An authority has a discretionary power to cancel a PCN at any point throughout the process. It can do this even when an undoubted contravention has occurred if the authority deems it to be appropriate in the circumstances of the case.”
Quote
“Under general principles of public law, authorities have a duty to act fairly and proportionately and are encouraged to exercise discretion sensibly and reasonably and with due regard to the public interest. Failure to act in accordance with the general principles of public law may lead to a claim for a decision to be judicially reviewed.”
In this case, the contravention—if any—was minor, unintentional, and caused by accessibility barriers. The vehicle was parked lawfully, paid for, and caused no harm. The Council’s refusal to exercise discretion is disproportionate and contrary to public law principles.
Furthermore, the guidance states:
Quote
“Authorities should formulate (with advice from their legal department) and then publish their policies on the exercise of discretion. They should apply these policies flexibly and judge each case on its merits. An enforcement authority should be ready to depart from its policies if the particular circumstances of the case warrant it.”
Quote
“The enforcement authority should have clear policies, instructions and training available on how to exercise such authority. These policies should form the basis for staff training and should be published.”
To date, Solihull Council has not previously published any such discretionary policy, nor provided evidence that staff are trained to apply discretion fairly and flexibly. This omission undermines transparency, accountability, and the Council’s legal obligations under the guidance.

5. Remedy Sought
I respectfully request that the PCN be cancelled on the grounds that:
The parking was paid for and covered the relevant time.
The error was minor and caused by accessibility barriers.
The TRO does not support enforcement for VRM entry errors.
The Council has a statutory duty to act fairly and make reasonable adjustments.
The Council has failed to publish or apply a discretionary policy as required under statutory guidance.

Should this appeal be rejected, I intend to escalate the matter to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal and, if necessary, raise a formal complaint regarding breach of the Equality Act and failure to act proportionately.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Yours faithfully,
[Name]
[Email Address]
[Vehicle Registration]
[PCN Reference]
« Last Edit: October 12, 2025, 01:46:09 am by advicewelcome »

Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #19 on: »

Well, well....  ;D



ECONOMY & INFRASTRUCTURE DIRECTORATE
Council House, Manor Square,
www.solihull.gov.uk

Date: 05 November 2025

NOTICE OF ACCEPTANCE

Of representations against Notice to Owner -Traffic Management Act 2004 S78


Thank you for writing to us.

I am writing to inform you that the Council has decided to cancel the PCN. However, I must advise you
that the decision has been taken to cancel the above stated PCN on different grounds and not on the
grounds you raised in your grounds of appeal. Therefore, the Notice has now been closed and there is no
outstanding balance.

Please be advised that this does not set a precedent for future notices, as each case js treated on its own
merits. It is imperative that motorists always comply with traffic regulations, and it is only in extreme
situations where consideration is given to mitigation.

The Authority reserves the right to judge which circumstances are considered extreme, and decide
accordingly whether to accept or reject a representation

If you get another PCN in similar circumstances, we may not be able to cancel it.

Yours sincerely

Parking Officer

Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #20 on: »
It would be interesting to find out on what grounds the PCN was cancelled.

Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #21 on: »
Agreed. I'd be firing off a subject data access request for all notes about the PCN if I was the OP.

Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #22 on: »
It would be interesting to find out on what grounds the PCN was cancelled.

"I am writing to inform you that the Council has decided to cancel the PCN. However, I must advise you
that the decision has been taken to cancel the above stated PCN on different grounds and not on the
grounds you raised in your grounds of appeal."



...looks like they don't want to say - not really making sense is it?

They suddenly found something else which makes then want to cancel the PCN after they receiving my formal reps? They would have noticed it if I had paid up and send my money back? (doubt it).

Or the ground indicated were the reason they cancelled and they don't want to give the impression it was?

In my appeal:
"Procedural Impropriety
The PCN fails to comply with several mandatory requirements of the
Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022, including:
    • Schedule 2(f): No statement that a Notice to Owner may be served if the penalty is not paid.
    • Regulation 3(1)(c): No information regarding the right to make formal representations following an NtO.
    • Ambiguity in the service date phrasing, which may mislead recipients about statutory payment and appeal deadlines.
Under paragraph 4(4)(a) of Schedule 9 to the TMA 2004, these omissions constitute procedural impropriety and render the PCN invalid."


You reckon it was this bit? Are they worried the other tickets have been incorrectly issued and could be claimed back?

Re: Council Kiosk User Interface Issues - do I have a hope in hell?
« Reply #23 on: »
Agreed. I'd be firing off a subject data access request for all notes about the PCN if I was the OP.

what would that look like? What should it say? What's the benefits in doing so?


Its a small minded council - I wonder if they might find some ways of putting the screws on in some other ways if you get too much of a profile with them.