Author Topic: PCN Stopping in a yellow box junction (Crystal Palace Parade/Bus Garage, Bromley Council)  (Read 3802 times)

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Hi,


I wonder if I could request the opinion of those with knowledge, as to whether I have grounds for a representation relating to this PCN. Whilst the contravention is mentioned in the PCN no contravention code has been indicated on the PCN (I may well be splitting hairs here), secondly my exit was the left lane for me to proceed down Anerley Hill which was initially blocked by the first bus pulling out and blocking the junction for my exit left and then the second bus pulling out.

Video of alleged contravention

Thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2025, 10:46:49 pm by IC3GB »

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Hi John,

Video link shared in my now edited original post.

Thanks in advance,

This is trivial and unfortunate but they can enforce this to get your cash.

Paperwork/website issues may be the only hope as per our member Hippo.

Of course they can use discretion and can be reminded of their duty to act fairly in the public interest.

« Last Edit: August 23, 2025, 12:08:29 am by stamfordman »

Having looked at their video, the bus is already stopped when you partially enter the box. I agree with Stamfordman this is a trivial offence. I call these 'moneygrubbing PCNs' and really, adjudicators should be far more willing to callout things like this, but I suspect they just want a quiet life.

I don't think the video is sufficient to prove a contravention. There are three exit lanes (including one which extends beyond the right hand side of the box junction) and the bus is masking the third one so you can't see if it has a stationary vehicle blocking your exit.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/jcHEkeU12EUibxPm6?g_st=ac

Also please include the backing pages of the PCN. I believe Bromley's template includes a technical error which can also be a strong appeal point.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2025, 09:27:19 am by MrChips »

Hi @MrChips,

See the attached showing both the first and second page of the PCN.

Thanks in advance.

They have amended their PCN:

This is correct:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted

(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;

However, they cannot take steps to enforce the increased charge until 28 days from the date of service:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted

Charge certificates
5(1)Where a penalty charge notice is served on any person and the penalty charge to which it relates is not paid before the end of the relevant period, the enforcing authority may serve on that person a statement (in this paragraph referred to as a “charge certificate”) to the effect that the penalty charge in question is increased by 50 per cent.

(2)The relevant period, in relation to a penalty charge notice is the period of 28 days beginning—

(a)where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above, with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served;

(b)where such representations are made and a notice of rejection is served by the enforcing authority and no appeal against the notice of rejection is made with the date on which the period within which an appeal could have been made expires; or

****

I'll draft a collateral challenge tomorrow. Please prod me as I am super busy.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Is it here?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/search/crystal+palace+parade+bus+garage/@51.4206649,-0.078811,134m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDgxOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D


If so the box is not at the junction of two or more roads as a road is defined a having unfettered access for the public to use and the bus garage does not meet this criteria

Hi @Pastmybest,

Correct as on the GSV and the attached jpeg image, this is the box in question.

Thanks in advance.

You need to tread carefully here. Adjudicators don't look favourably on vehicles blocking buses, and this is a bus station, not a garage. There was a case soe months ago for a similar situation, (bus station and YBJs at entrance and eit) which the appellant lost.

I represented a case some time ago perhaps the one you are thinking of. That was an exit from a bus only street somewhat similar but not the same.

Ms Peirce was having non of the arguments I put, but in truth I onlt tried because the Op had nothing to use

The box extends beyond the junction is also another avenue. If hippo is taking this on then i will liaise
with him re the two arguments 

Do those two arguments include mine? Not sure how the council can prove the OP was blocked by a stationary vehicle that can't be seen...

Just looked again at this, and beyond the YBJ it is two traffic lanes. The approach to the YBJ is bus lane plus traffic lane, so the OP would have approached the YBJ in the traffic lane so his space opposite would be in the second lane, not the first. This means the video does not show the contravention, because it doesn't show anything of the street beyond the YBJ as the bus is obstructing the camera.  So as the evidence shows no stationary vehicle in the second lane, therefore cannot show a contravention, therefore the PCN must be cancelled.

Hi @Hippocrates,

This is a gentle prod to you as suggested.

Thanks to everyone who has commented on this thread thus far, I have just received a rejection from Greenwich for another PCN which was received prior to me learning of this forum and so I will start another thread relating to that later.

Thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2025, 09:10:07 pm by IC3GB »