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Hi all,

Council name: Southwark
Location: Peckham
Code: 81
Alleged contravention: Parked in a restricted area in an off-street car park or housing estate


On Fri 23rd Feb evening, there was 1 bay free in my estate parking when I returned from work. GOOGLE STREET VIEW. This bay is squeezed up against a brick wall that is hugely overgrown with bushes (council's responsibility), making it impossible to park with all 4 wheels inside the marked bay. I parked as closely to the wall as I could without risking damaging the car and allowing the doors to open.

On Sat 24th Feb @ 10:01 a PCN was issued and placed on my car. I found it later that day. This was Code 81.
PCN: PCN IMAGE

REVERSE SIDE OF PCN

I sent a challenge on the same day; rather than explaining all the detail in this post it will be clearer for me to share the actual challenge: CHALLENGE DOCUMENT

What I did not mention in the challenge is that I now have 10+ photos of other cars parked in similar fashion all over the estate, none of which have received a PCN. In the 4 years I have lived here, I don't know anyone here who has received a PCN. I am not going to dob anyone else in, but it doesn't seem right that the enforcement is so lax sometimes and stringent at others.

On Weds 13th Mar, I recieved a response from Southwark Council. They have said that I "parked in an unmarked area" which isn't true - the vast majority of my car was within the marked bay, but I wasn't able to get all 4 wheels in because of the overgrowth. I made sure my car was not blocking anyone; and in fact a flatbed transit came through while I was there so I know there was no issue with blocking.

The main point they seem to be making is that due to the motorcycle parked in the bay, I should not have parked there. However, my rear wheels were still in line with the rear white line as you can see in THIS PHOTO. The problem was that I had to park further to the right due to not being able to get close enough to the wall because of the overgrowth of bushes. The motorcycle made no difference... the response also ignores the point I have raised about there being no alternative parking. I'm not allowed to park on any external streets anymore because they are now permit only, and as a resident in an estate I can't get the permit! I have emailed asking about it and no response. And there were no other bays free in the estate. So what was I supposed to do at 10pm on a Friday night?
Response Letter from Southwark Council: RESPONSE IMAGE

Any guidance here would be much appreciated! I feel absolutely fleeced because I tried to do the right thing here, and I have received a PCN. Whereas I have photos of other cars parked on double yellows all around the estate, at all times of the week/day/night, with no PCN issued. One rule for some, one for others... doesn't sit well with me.


Thank you in advance.

OP, the back of the PCN pl.

https://www.southwark.gov.uk/assets/attach/185476/Tenants-Handbook-part-9.-Parking.pdf

See heading 2, Estate Parking, in particular 'sometimes using the same codes'!

I don't see that the location is subject to enforcement under the Traffic Management Act, and if it is then the requirements as regards clear signing of bays, their use, what happens for non-compliance should apply but none of which is visible in HSV.

Using your Tenant's Handbook as a frame of reference, ask for a copy of the traffic order which applies to Northfield House.

Also I'm not sure what HSV means? Forgive my ignorance!

Not ignorance, observation....of my mistype, should be GSV!

Keep at getting the order, in my opinion the whole thing stinks.

Well - Southwark Council have bounced my request to the Freedom of Information department. That means they get until 17th April to give me a response... time I don't have with this ticket looming over me.

Any further advice on whether to wait for the NtO and fight it or whether it's a lost cause would be great... thanks team!

Response below from the Council:

Freedom of Information Act 2000
 
Thank you for your request for information, that was received on 18 March 2024.
The request is as follows:

I am a resident of Northfield House, Peckham Park Road, SE15 6TN. I have been reading about the Estate Parking guidelines in the Tenant's Handbook ( https://www.southwark.gov.uk/assets/attach/185476/Tenants-Handbook-part-9.-Parking.pdf ) and I noticed this section:

"The council also have written traffic management orders and enforce on housing estates using the same powers as on the highway."

Please can you email me a copy of all Traffic Management Orders that are relevant and applicable to Northfield House Estate Parking? The relevant section of the Southwark Council website https://www.southwark.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/traffic-orders-licensing-strategies-and-regulation/traffic-management-orders?chapter=4 does not list anything about Northfield House.

 
We are dealing with your request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and we aim to send a response by 17 April 2024.
 
The Freedom of Information Act 2000 may restrict the release of some or all of the information you have requested. We will carry out an assessment and if any exemptions apply to some or all of the information then we might not provide that information to you. We will inform you if this is the case and advise you of your rights to request an internal review and to complain to the Information Commissioner's Office.
 
We will also advise you if we cannot provide you with the information requested for any other reason together with the reason(s) why and details of how you may appeal (if appropriate).
 
Yours faithfully

Apologies, I think I wasn't clear - the 17th April message was their response to my request for a copy of the applicable Traffic Management Order. They seem to have deemed that a FOI request despite it being something that should already be in the public domain. So I might not get copies of that until mid April - though as you say, if it takes them that long to get hold of it that also makes me think they are hedging their bets that people won't challenge their PCNs! I still expect to of course receive the NtO after not paying within 28 days of the issue of the PCN, so I will wait for that as well as the Traffic Management Order.

HERE is the link to the full response, both sides. Sorry, totally my mistake not to include the reverse side.

@mang0 this looks really simple to me: the photos do not show any contravention:

There is no evidence of any signage to put you notice that you're parking in an off-street car park, let alone of any signage telling you that a PCN may be issued for parking outside of a bay or in a restricted area. As such the council did not bring the terms of the off-street parking places order to your attention, so there was no contravention.

The order is [] so you don't need to wait for the council to provide it (indeed I'd suggest you withdraw your FOI request so the next person in the queue gets their information request answered a bit quicker). The map tile for Northfield House is on page 197 and I don't see that it creates either a bay nor a restricted area where you parked your car:
[]
If this is put to the council properly in the formal representations (which I'm happy to draft for you), we could make the case that it would be wholly unreasonable for them to reject. If they are then silly enough to reject, we can go after them for costs at the tribunal.

Do you have the V5C and is the address up to date?

Hey - I'm not sure how I missed your reply! I think my browser was showing me a cached version. Apologies for the delay responding.

Thanks so much for your input. Southwark Council still haven't got back to me with the FOI request. I'm very happy to cancel it. I've just had the NtO come through a couple of days ago:

LINK TO NTO

I really appreciate you passing on that TMO with the relevant parking information etc. There really is no signage around the estate about parking, I have looked many times; it's a free for all. To be honest the Northfield House resident's association is always up in arms about parking here, as there's so little of it and there are a lot of outsiders that come and park here despite it supposedly being resident's parking.

The only thing I would add to the images, is that I think you circled the wrong spot - I overlaid the Google Maps pic (where you had circled the marked bay I parked in) and the estate parking pic, and I was was parked in that cut-off corner; that is marked a dark orange colour and so technically is 'no waiting at any time', despite it being a painted white-lined bay! Does this make a difference despite there being no signage?



I am definitely open to discussing some assistance with drafting my representation in response to the NtO. Whilst I could pay the £65/£130 and move on, it's more a matter of principal that I have contacted the council multiple times about parking over the last few years, never received a reply, and then got this PCN.

I do have the V5C with correct address etc listed, yes.

Thanks again for all your help.

@mang0 hopefully this won't require much of a discussion, here you go:

-snip-

Send it online, keep a copy, and make sure to keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.

You are so generous - thank you! I have made my representation now using your template, let's see where this goes next. Really appreciate your help and detailed reply and letter for me.

Just to log it here too in case of future requirement - PROOF of submission of representation.

I assume the message about the fine increasing to £195 by 25th May if unpaid is on hold while my representation is in process?

Quote from: mang0 on May 01, 2024, 11:32:51 pm

I assume the message about the fine increasing to £195 by 25th May if unpaid is on hold while my representation is in process?

Yes, if they were to serve a charge certificate while the representation is still outstanding that would be a procedural impropriety, and an immediate and guaranteed win at the tribunal.

Great, thanks for clarifying. Will update when I hear back from them.