Author Topic: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.  (Read 1236 times)

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PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
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Hello all,

I am hoping you can steer me in the right direction on a recent PCN i recieved for parking on a grass verge. I did not see any signs warning me of this and on inspection of the road after the ticket, i noticed a lack in signage and even a compleatly defaced sign.

I have appealed informally within the 14 day 50% discount but this was rejected without even taking my points into consideration or providing any explaination.

The ticket was issued in Marine Avenue in Leigh on sea. I pulled into this road from Ronald Hill Grove and parked outside number 53 as seen here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/gLBzN6JmJRt4ZwAZ7 I then walked back up towards Ronald Hill grove.

I did not pass any signs to warn me of the restriction. No sign on entry, and the first sign is further down the road which i did not pass. If you look on google maps you can see one sign is also defaced 2 years ago and still like that now!

I have looked at other roads that have grass verge restrictions and there are signs as you enter or on the first verge you pass.

Is there any regualtion on how close a sign needs to be on the enterance to the road?

my PCN is here: https://postimg.cc/n9xHfbBN
PCN OS13882827


My appeal read as:
"On the day in question, I entered Marine Avenue from Ronald Hill Grove and parked my vehicle outside of number 53. During my journey into Marine Avenue, I did not encounter any signs that informed me of any parking restrictions on the grass verges. Additionally, there were no signs on the grass verges themselves up to the point where I parked. This lack of visible signage gave me no reason to believe that I was in violation of any parking regulations.

I also want to emphasize that, as I left my vehicle and walked back up to Ronald Hill Grove, I did not come across any signs that would have alerted me to the parking restrictions in place. The photo of the sign that was taken as part of the ticket clearly shows a sign further down the road, which I did not see at the time of parking.

In light of my appeal, I took it upon myself to inspect the area after receiving the ticket. To my surprise, I discovered that one of the signs was vandalized and, as a result, completely unreadable. This further adds to the confusion and lack of clarity regarding the parking restrictions in the area.

To support my appeal, I have attached a photo from Google Maps that was taken approximately two years ago. This image clearly shows the absence of any visible signs on the grass verges, corroborating my assertion that the signage in the area is unclear and insufficient to inform drivers of parking restrictions.

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Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
« Reply #1 on: »
Please post up their rejection.

Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
« Reply #2 on: »

Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
« Reply #3 on: »
Having had a look on GSV, I think you have a good case on totally inadequate signage of the restriction. However, you'll have to take the double-or-quits gamble of waiting for the Notice to Owner, submitting reps again, then, when refused, take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.

Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
« Reply #4 on: »
Since when does a blue notice referencing a local bylaw be classed as a Traffic Sign?
It isn't within TSRGD and I doubt that it has been authorised by Sec of State when perfectly good signs to prohibit are available within TSRGD
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/5/made
Part 3 item 7.
I even doubt that the bylaw is sufficient to allow enforcement under TMA 2004 though a TRO may be present.

I also suspect they are wrong n charging higher level penalty.
Code 64 is specifically for Essex only but Patrol do not show higher or lower

This seems a right pig's ear.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2023, 04:46:54 pm by DancingDad »

Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
« Reply #5 on: »
I recon i may appeal this then. If i go to the tribunal i wont get a CCJ or anything will I?

Also will i need to appear in person or have a telephone conversation?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2023, 09:45:22 am by mfarrell »

Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
« Reply #6 on: »
As long as you follow the appeal process properly (and pay up if you lose), it's impossible for a PCN to end in a CCJ. The most that will ever be at stake is the non-discount penalty, which in this case is £70.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2023, 09:48:52 am by Grant Urismo »

Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
« Reply #7 on: »
Traffic Court offers online submissions AFAIK.

Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
« Reply #8 on: »
From what i can see of the sign they are relying on an a local act of parliament (the essex act 1987 s8 ) https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1987/20/pdfs/ukla_19870020_en.pdf

If this is so then a PCN is not the correct route they may take. It is a criminal matter

But please post the whole of the PCN so we can be sure
« Last Edit: November 01, 2023, 11:30:08 pm by cp8759 »

Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
« Reply #9 on: »
I'm certainly querying the details of what they believe allows them to penalise under TMA2004

Even if it does derive from the Essex Act, that defines Traffic Signs as per S64, RTRA 1984
Which comes back to TSRGD, at the time I believe TSRGD 1981 would be in force and guess what, No Parking on verges signs were included in that.
Which comes back to the sign that they are relying on is not a Traffic Sign and I seriously doubt that it would have been authorised in that format.

Edit
Ah well, bit of research and the Essex Act is included within Schedule 7(4) of TMA, specifically Section 30 (which seems to be harbour land) and S6(6) which is grass verges

(f)an offence under section 6(6) of the Essex Act 1987 (c. xx) of leaving a vehicle on any land in contravention of a prohibition under that section (prohibitions relating to verges and certain other land adjoining or accessible from highway);

But it still requires and is stated within the section, a proper Traffic Sign
« Last Edit: November 01, 2023, 09:58:20 pm by DancingDad »

Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
« Reply #10 on: »
That is the gist of it, if a PCN is issued then a regulatory sign is needed but we need to see the PCN in full

Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
« Reply #11 on: »
Photos:















It's section 6 of the Essex Act 1987 (PMB I've fixed the link in your post above to make it clickable), and this is the relevant part:



Two points arise: the sign needs to be in a conspicuous position (which appears to be a higher standard than the standard of adequacy created by LATOR, conspicuous seems aking to the "bound to be seen" test that applies in private parking cases), and if the land is part of the highway then the sign needs to be a TSRGD compliant sign, which the one seen here most definitely isn't.

So we have plenty to go on, are you the registered keeper and do you have the V5c?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
« Reply #12 on: »
Here is the PCN in full.

Still not paid as I believe I have a case with the help from everyone on here

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Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
« Reply #13 on: »
Can't remember the last time we had an 'Essex Act' issue.

OP, although it's a local Act, it's still covered by the Traffic Management Act.

So, 2 issues for me:
How must the offence be enforced;
What conditions apply to the the prohibition?

Parking contraventions outside Greater London

4(1)Outside Greater London there is a parking contravention in relation to a vehicle if it is stationary in circumstances in which any of the offences listed below is committed.

(2)The offences are—

......

f)an offence under section 6(6) of the Essex Act 1987 (c. xx) of leaving a vehicle on any land in contravention of a prohibition under that section (prohibitions relating to verges and certain other land adjoining or accessible from highway);


Note that it's 6(6) which provides that:
(6) A person who contravenes .....a notice displayed under this section [6] shall be guilty of an offence.

The council may therefore issue PCNs under the TMA.

The Act also defines 'notice' for the purposes of 6(6) as follows:

5(5) '..a notice..shall be a traffic sign'.

Section 2, Interpretation, defines a 'traffic sign' as having the meaning given by Section 64 of the Act[Road Traffic Regulation Act].

The 'relevant authority' [Secretary of State] has made regulations under the 1984 Act[Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions, 2016] under which the only traffic sign permitted to convey the prohibition in the Essex Act is given at Schedule 5 to these Regulations(and Schedule 7 for repeater signs). In both cases these are circular with a red border incorporating the black image of a vehicle on a white background.

The only sign in the vicinity of the location is shown in the enclosed photo. It is not a 'Traffic Sign' as defined and therefore not a 'notice' as required and consequently the council has failed to sign the prohibition lawfully and the PCN must be cancelled.
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Re: PCN - Southend on sea. 64- Parking on grass verge.
« Reply #14 on: »
Seems worth taking wot HCA writ above.... from after 2 the offences are...
to the end.

Head it with
Dear Sirs
REf PCN XXX?
The Contravention Did Not Occur

And end it with Hugs and Kisses (or your preferred closing)

It's got all that is needed