Author Topic: PCN - Royal Borough of Greenwich - 47J  (Read 525 times)

0 Members and 423 Guests are viewing this topic.

PCN - Royal Borough of Greenwich - 47J
« on: »
Hello All,

First off - holding my (wife's) hands up as to the contravention, but I believe it's contestable due to there being no "upright" notice on the bus stop.

PCN:




CCTV photos:



Bus stop - context & detail:



Is it worth contesting, or do I just take this one on the chin?
Thanks in advance.

***edited as the images didn't embed properly***
« Last Edit: January 15, 2025, 03:00:23 pm by SITR »

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


Re: PCN - Royal Borough of Greenwich - 47J
« Reply #1 on: »
Good spot - the no stopping sign must be there and it isn't - looks like it was on a lamppost in 2016 but they took the lamppost down and didn't put the sign back up.


Re: PCN - Royal Borough of Greenwich - 47J
« Reply #2 on: »
I've checked back through GSV for this location, and it seems there has never been a sign making this a restricted bus stop
No sign = no contravention

So submit representations saying the alleged contravention did not occur because the bus stop is not a restricted bus stop.

Re: PCN - Royal Borough of Greenwich - 47J
« Reply #3 on: »
I've checked back through GSV for this location, and it seems there has never been a sign making this a restricted bus stop

See my post...

Re: PCN - Royal Borough of Greenwich - 47J
« Reply #4 on: »
I've checked back through GSV for this location, and it seems there has never been a sign making this a restricted bus stop

See my post...
So there in 2016: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/kFNPya41p2ACfcg49
gone in 2017 : -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/R1tjnWjRws75S57b9

So 7 years of unlawfully served PCNs.

Re: PCN - Royal Borough of Greenwich - 47J
« Reply #5 on: »
Is there a deadline (56 days?) for an appeal response?
I contested the PCN on 16th Jan but haven't heard anything back yet.

The PCN is still live on the Greenwich website & is now showing the full £130 value rather than the discount (despite appealing within the discount period).

Re: PCN - Royal Borough of Greenwich - 47J
« Reply #6 on: »
There is no time limit for responses to an informal challenge, but there is a limit of 56 days to respond to representations against a Notice to Owner.

Is the address on your V5C for the vehicle all up-to-date, and the same as it was on the date the PCN was served ? They may have served a Notice to Owner that has gone astray. The fact that the penalty is now showing £130 makes me suspect that. I suggest you contact the council to find out what has gone on.

Re: PCN - Royal Borough of Greenwich - 47J
« Reply #7 on: »
Address-wise everything is correct & as it should be.

The original PCN came through the post.

I'll attempt to contact the council. Thanks

Re: PCN - Royal Borough of Greenwich - 47J
« Reply #8 on: »
The PCN was served by post, the governing legislation is the TMA and, as stated in the PCN, they have 56 days in which to respond.

So, OP:
Let's see the reps pl;
By whom, when and how were these made?

Re: PCN - Royal Borough of Greenwich - 47J
« Reply #9 on: »
Reps by me. 16th Jan. Royal Greenwich website, PCN payment & challenge section.

Case number: GR22852804
Vehicle registration: KW70ZJV
Contravention: 47J- PARKED ON A RESTRICTED BUS STOP/STAND
Date and time of contravention: 04/01/2025 13:37

Reason for appeal: 'Any other reason'

Your answers:

-Question 1 : 'Please explain in as much detail as possible why you think your PCN should be cancelled'
-Answer : 'I challenge liability for PCN GR22852804 on the basis the alleged contravention did not occur.
I have checked the location of the alleged contravention and find that there is no "relevant upright sign" per Part 6 of Schedule 7 of The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 that prohibits stopping in this location. It therefore follows that the PCN must be cancelled.
I am attaching images taken on 15th Jan 2025 that show the lack of signage at the location.
Regards,
« Last Edit: March 30, 2025, 09:24:03 am by SITR »

Re: PCN - Royal Borough of Greenwich - 47J
« Reply #10 on: »
Thanks.

The 56-day period commenced on 16 Jan. and ended on 13 March.

Was the PCN addressed to you?

Re: PCN - Royal Borough of Greenwich - 47J
« Reply #11 on: »
Yes. I'm owner & registered keeper.

Re: PCN - Royal Borough of Greenwich - 47J
« Reply #12 on: »
Then they're presumed to have accepted your reps.

They could rebut this by producing a NOR issued no later than 11 March, but it's their burden, not yours.

I suggest you contact them to find out the current state of play from their perspective.

Re: PCN - Royal Borough of Greenwich - 47J
« Reply #13 on: »
Will do.
Thanks for the advice

Re: PCN - Royal Borough of Greenwich - 47J
« Reply #14 on: »
Just to close off the story on this one:
I phoned the council, then followed-up with an email when I didn't get the promised callback.


"Re. PCN GR22852804 – Issued 04/01/2025

As can be seen from the attached email, I appealed this PCN on 16/01/2025 but have not received any response.

I chased this matter with the RBG last week (call ref. PCN-945,732) and somebody from the “back office” was going to contact me, but I am yet to receive either a call or email.

I do notice, however, that the missing signage that means the PCN is unenforceable and should be cancelled, has suddenly been replaced after 7 years of absence. This strongly suggests that my case has been reviewed, but a ruling hasn’t been communicated to me.

Obviously we are now well outside the statutory 56 days within which RBG should have replied and it should be assumed that you have therefore cancelled the PCN, but I would like the official confirmation please.

If you need any further info please call or email me."



I got a reply 10 days later:
"Good afternoon

Thank you for your email regarding the above mentioned penalty charge notice.

Due to an administrative error your appeal was not processed and as you have quite rightly stated as your appeal is over 56 days we are no longer able to contest this charge.

We can confirm, therefore, that the case is now closed.

Kind regards

Parking Services"


I call bullsh1t on the "administrative error" - the timing of the new signage is just too convenient. Still, the PCN has been cancelled.

Thanks to the forum members that offered advice with this challenge - it was much appreciated.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2025, 11:30:21 am by SITR »