3. PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
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PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
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Good afternoon all

Thank you for providing this forum and your help.

I have received this PCN from parking in a pay by phone space. I arrived at the space just after 5pm. In line with my resident status, I am entitled to 30 minutes free on Ringgo. I thought I had booked this and was surprised to get a PCN, but have found that it must not have gone through; signal is notoriously bad on this street and it often takes multiple attempts to get the app to load. I thought I had managed this time but clearly not.

Had this gone through successfully, this would have taken me past 5:30pm, at which point I am entitled to park for free (1 hour before the parking restrictions end). I would therefore have paid nothing for the entire stay.

Is there any point appealing?

Thank you for any help.



I can't see the image loading so here is the direct link https://imgur.com/a/o577Qt5

Unfortunately google street view shows an old set up, the pay and display machine is no longer there.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/iEbcHcVLqZarYV9Z9
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Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« Reply #1 on: »
Bump for help please



Apologies meant also to tag @cp8759 in original post!

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« Last Edit: March 13, 2025, 10:33:05 am by MuBa99 »
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Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« Reply #2 on: »
Submit non-confrontational informal representations based on your narrative here, like "am resident so entitled to 30 free minutes etc, thought time had been booked, so surprised about the PCN". Request cancellation  because as a resident no parking fee would have been payable anyway. P{Post up their reply when you get it.
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Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« Reply #3 on: »
+1.

Remember, the contravention occurred at 17.27 so you don't need to go into what might have been your rights after 17.30.
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Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« Reply #4 on: »
Thank you both, done, I await their response!
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Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« Reply #5 on: »
Unfortunately this went to my junk mail so deadline for reduced payment is Friday, can anyone suggest whether it's worth formal representations?

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Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« Reply #6 on: »
I would go on with this. They are penalising you for 3 mins of free time and this doesn't pass the duty to act fairly in my view.
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Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« Reply #7 on: »
I infer that the OP parked until well beyond 5.30, therefore well more than 8 minutes. Surely concessions have to end some time? Why is 8 mins not OK?


IMO, unless you can counter their claim that there is no record of you even attempting to procure your free parking period (and as a resident you presumably knew that a successful log-in would have been accompanied by confirmation of some sort) then based upon what we know I don't see that you have other than mitigation.

Except that the contravention is for non-payment.

We need to see whatever authority you have as a resident to obtain 30 minutes' free parking for nothing subject to obtaining a virtual online permit or whatever it's called. The traffic sign in evidence says Pay by phone until 6.30 pm. How do you get 30 minutes and then an hour free? Pl explain. Perhaps there's mileage in the contravention description?
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Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on June 24, 2025, 04:35:12 pm
I infer that the OP parked until well beyond 5.30, therefore well more than 8 minutes. Surely concessions have to end some time? Why is 8 mins not OK?


IMO, unless you can counter their claim that there is no record of you even attempting to procure your free parking period (and as a resident you presumably knew that a successful log-in would have been accompanied by confirmation of some sort) then based upon what we know I don't see that you have other than mitigation.

Except that the contravention is for non-payment.

We need to see whatever authority you have as a resident to obtain 30 minutes' free parking for nothing subject to obtaining a virtual online permit or whatever it's called. The traffic sign in evidence says Pay by phone until 6.30 pm. How do you get 30 minutes and then an hour free? Pl explain. Perhaps there's mileage in the contravention description?

I am a resident and therefore entitled to 30 minutes free parking in any pay and display space. Had the Ring go "payment" gone through, I would have had free parking up to and after 5:30pm. However, as a resident with a parking permit, I do not need to pay anything after 5:30pm as we get the first and last hour of the day free. So the spaces are operating 8:30-18:30 for non-residents, but 9:30-17:30 for residents. Given that the PCN was issued at 17:27, I was therefore penalised for 3 minutes of parking.
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Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« Reply #9 on: »
Your claims must be enshrined in some document or other surely, perhaps also with terms and conditions.

You are being penalised for being parked at all without the right to do so. The '5 minutes' is a concession and decision-making buffer zone to ensure that any permitted activity can be checked thoroughly. IMO, without having obtained the right to park you were in contravention from when the CEO first observed the vehicle, not 5 minutes later.
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Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on June 24, 2025, 05:38:48 pm
Your claims must be enshrined in some document or other surely, perhaps also with terms and conditions.

You are being penalised for being parked at all without the right to do so. The '5 minutes' is a concession and decision-making buffer zone to ensure that any permitted activity can be checked thoroughly. IMO, without having obtained the right to park you were in contravention from when the CEO first observed the vehicle, not 5 minutes later.

By your reckoning then it would be 11 minutes of parking, which is surely not commensurate with a £60 fine given it would have been no charge.
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Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« Reply #11 on: »
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Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« Reply #12 on: »
As far as I can see, the permit doesn't give any rights in a simple pay bay.

https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/richmondcard/richmond_card_for_parking

Do you hold a Richmond Card? 

If you live in the Borough and hold a Richmond Card, you can get 30 minutes free parking in our:

Pay and Display parking bays
Council-owned car parks
You can only park for a single session for a period of up to 30 minutes. If you wish to park for longer you must pay for the total duration of your stay.

Richmond Card and RingGo  https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_machines/ringgo/resident_discounts_ringgo

https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_machines/ringgo/how_to_use_ringgo

The objective facts as per the council are that there is no record of you having attempted to comply with the RingGo requirement which, if you're registered, would have entitled you to 30 mins parking only. It was not a type of bay which provided any resident permit holder benefits as far as I can tell from what you posted (and the council's photos) and therefore if you had wanted to stay beyond 30 minutes then you were required to pay. But the PCN doesn't deal with what might have happened, only what did.

What evidence do you have that the council's response is ill-considered because you can prove that you made every reasonable effort.

Just looking for an angle here.



 
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Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on June 24, 2025, 09:21:16 pm
As far as I can see, the permit doesn't give any rights in a simple pay bay.

https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/richmondcard/richmond_card_for_parking

Do you hold a Richmond Card? 

If you live in the Borough and hold a Richmond Card, you can get 30 minutes free parking in our:

Pay and Display parking bays
Council-owned car parks
You can only park for a single session for a period of up to 30 minutes. If you wish to park for longer you must pay for the total duration of your stay.

Richmond Card and RingGo  https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_machines/ringgo/resident_discounts_ringgo

https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_machines/ringgo/how_to_use_ringgo

The objective facts as per the council are that there is no record of you having attempted to comply with the RingGo requirement which, if you're registered, would have entitled you to 30 mins parking only. It was not a type of bay which provided any resident permit holder benefits as far as I can tell from what you posted (and the council's photos) and therefore if you had wanted to stay beyond 30 minutes then you were required to pay. But the PCN doesn't deal with what might have happened, only what did.

What evidence do you have that the council's response is ill-considered because you can prove that you made every reasonable effort.

Just looking for an angle here.

Hi, the parking permit does give rights in a pay and display bay, here is a table setting it out: https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_permits/where_to_park

In the table it says pay and display bays can be used for a free hour at the beginning and end of each enforced period, e.g. between 8:30am and 9:30am where the parking enforcement starts at 8:30am and from 5:30pm where parking enforcement ends at 6:30pm.

I do have a Richmond card and my Ringgo account is set up so that I get a 30 minute free parking period when I "pay" to park. I do this every day when I get home from work. I park in the space outside my house, register for the half hour, and this takes me past 5:30pm at which point parking for me is free because restrictions end at 6:30pm and my permit allows me that final hour free. So, with the combination of my free 30 minutes from Ringgo because I have a Richmond card, and my A2 parking permit, I do not pay for any parking in a pay and display bay after 5pm (if the bay operation times end at 6:30pm, which these ones do).
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Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« Reply #14 on: »
Furthermore, the parking attendant would have been well aware that my permit allows me free parking from 5:30pm and issued a notice at 5:27pm, which again gives a £30 fine for 3 minutes. This doesn't seem proportional.
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