3. 52J - Derby Rd junction Clarendon Road (Croydon)
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jmann

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52J - Derby Rd junction Clarendon Road (Croydon)
« on: April 05, 2024, 08:56:33 pm »
Hi,

Would appreciate some help regarding the attached PNC for failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicles (52J) from Croydon council.
Any grounds to appeal?

year before Last this road was no access and they had a couple of pillars right in the middle so you could not drive through it but seems that got changed recently.

These restrictive zones are a nightmare (my third ticket in last 8 months within Croydon borough) and I keep making the same mistake. These need to be put as large LED (flashing) display so they are obvious.




« Last Edit: April 06, 2024, 08:30:26 am by jmann »
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jmann

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Re: 52J - Derby Rd junction Clarendon Road (Croydon)
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2024, 08:38:32 am »
Attaching google image which has not been updated since Aug 2022. Showing Road Closed.
Which at some point was removed and the road became a restrictive road.
Does this help in any way?
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cp8759

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Re: 52J - Derby Rd junction Clarendon Road (Croydon)
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2024, 10:40:38 pm »
Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GpmgIeFvLw

GSV: https://maps.app.goo.gl/egDwFgHuxw59ep4r7

The traffic order is The Croydon (Traffic Movement) (Consolidation) Order 2019 and the map tile is U11, I can't see any issue with either.

What is your connection to the Ltd company that is the registered keeper?

The most obvious ground for making representations is that the penalty doesn't state what type of vehicle is prohibited, as per these cases:

Roger Marlow v Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames (2170021610, 23 February 2017)
Stanmore Quality Surfacing Ltd v London Borough of Brent (223050929A, 13 January 2024)
Stanmore Quality Surfacing Ltd v London Borough of Havering (223050945A, 13 January 2024)
Stanmore Quality Surfacing Ltd v London Borough of Havering (2240046992, 23 March 2024)

Here is a draft:

Dear London Borough of Croydon,

We challenge liability for PCN CR19769222 on the basis of a collateral challenge, specifically the penalty charge notice does not comply with the requirement of section 4(8)(a)(i) of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003, because the type of vehicle that is prohibited is not specified. There is no way to tell from the PCN where the prohibition is related to the vehicle's weight, height, width, or indeed whether it is a prohibition of all vehicles.

As the penalty charge notice is not compliant, there has been a substantive departure from the requirements of the statutory scheme, and it follows that the only penalty that may be demanded is nil.

Yours faithfully,

Of course only the registered keeper can make representations, though you can make representations on the company's behalf if you are a director or the company authorises you to do so.

Representations should be made online and you should keep a screenshot of the confirmation page. The council will undoubtedly reject but it should be a straightforward appeal to the tribunal.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

jmann

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Re: 52J - Derby Rd junction Clarendon Road (Croydon)
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2024, 11:01:24 am »
Great,
Thanks for this wonderful nugget.
Shall I mention these cases on my letter to Croydon council?

btw my company is the registered keeper (just my company name on V5)

Thanks
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cp8759

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Re: 52J - Derby Rd junction Clarendon Road (Croydon)
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2024, 06:36:14 pm »
Quote from: jmann on April 08, 2024, 11:01:24 am
Shall I mention these cases on my letter to Croydon council?
Sure, it can't hurt. They'll reject anyway because they won't understand what any of it means.

Quote from: jmann on April 08, 2024, 11:01:24 am
btw my company is the registered keeper (just my company name on V5)
I take it you mean this is a company of which you are a director, in which case that keeps things easy as nobody else is involved.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

jmann

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Re: 52J - Derby Rd junction Clarendon Road (Croydon)
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2024, 02:51:31 pm »
Yes I am the sole director of the company.
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cp8759

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Re: 52J - Derby Rd junction Clarendon Road (Croydon)
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2024, 09:27:09 am »
OK send the representation and let us know when you get the notice of rejection.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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