Author Topic: PCN Redbridge - York Road 31J contravention (Yellow box)  (Read 877 times)

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PCN Redbridge - York Road 31J contravention (Yellow box)
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Hello all, I have received a PCN from London Borough of Redbridge at York Road . I was stationary in the box junction because I believed I had the right of way and proceeded ahead. However, I later realized that the car ahead of me had moved forward and claimed priority.

Is it worth contesting this or use 50% discount and pay £65 PCN penalty? Please advise.

PCN NO: AF98991349
Contravention: 31J Entering and Stopping in a box junction when prohibited (Camera enforcement)
Vehicle Reg#: DP16 SXM
Google maps location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/vbgUbcadFDxyNWKb7
Unable to attach PCN notice and photos due to size restrictions.



Video link:

« Last Edit: August 17, 2024, 02:11:52 pm by ST_2023 »

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Re: PCN Redbridge - York Road 31J contravention (Yellow box)
« Reply #1 on: »
Can't see any chance on the contravention - you set off after it was clear the turning car was taking the space.

Post the PCN - use an image hosting site.

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Re: PCN Redbridge - York Road 31J contravention (Yellow box)
« Reply #2 on: »
Clearly you thought you'd never get across the junction due to cars on the side road nipping in when room appeared in the queue of traffic at the traffic lights in the distance.

Quote
However, I later realized that the car ahead of me had moved forward and claimed priority.
That is not what the video shows. It starts showing a car just completing a left turn out of the side road and moving to join the queue at the traffic lights down the street,  then another one doing the same. At this point, you then move into the box, presumably to stop a third car from blocking you,  but the second car stops so you have no space to exit the box, and have to stop within it. To be frank, it doesn't look as if you have a strong case, but I did find a successful appeal here on the London Tribunals Statutory Register.
2220276854
Adjudicator - John Hamilton
Quote
I decided this appeal having heard evidence from the appellant.
I can only allow an appeal if the authority has acted unlawfully by failing to comply with road traffic law or failing to follow its own procedures.The authority relies on CCTV footage shows the appellant's vehicle halfway across a box junction when firstly a vehicle waiting in a road to her left cuts in front of her vehicle and then a vehicle emerging from a road on her right cuts in front of her vehicle. These vehicles occupy the space on the other side of the junction that the appellant's vehicle clearly intended to use.The appellant told me that she had waited until there was space on the other side of the junction that would enable her vehicle to exit the junction before entering the junction. She then proceeded slowly across the junction at which point the two vehicles on either side of her vehicle took the opportunity to ignore the 'giveaway lines' they were waiting behind and cut in front of a vehicle preventing it from exiting the junction.I found the appellant account clear consistent and plausible. It was consistent with the CCTV evidence and I accept it in its entirety. In particular I accept her vehicle did not enter the box junction until there was a clear exit on the other side and that the vehicles that cut in front of her vehicle did not enter the box junction until after her vehicle had done so and was crossing the junction. Furthermore, it is quite clear to me that the drivers of the vehicles that enter the junction from the appellant's left and right failed to observe give way lines and were therefore guilty of the criminal offences of failing to obey a traffic sign and careless and/or inconsiderate driving.The relevant law is contained in Regulation 11 of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 which provides that "a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of oncoming vehicles or other stationary vehicles beyond the box junction".In this case I do not find that the appellant's vehicle was not caused to stop by oncoming vehicles or other stationary vehicles beyond the box junction but by the inconsiderate and unlawful driving by the drivers whose vehicles cut in front of her vehicle. I am therefore not satisfied the authority has shown a contravention has occurred and I allow this appeal.

However, everything turns on what the video shows as it is the sole evidence of the alleged contravention. So read this and compare with your own circumstances. Others may comment

In addition, the PCN may contain errors of content so it is essential we see it.

We have had a thread on this forum for this location some months ago, but I can't remember when, or how it turned out. It does look as though the adjudicators realise the problems at this location with the council almost creating a deliberate trap when you look at the video.

Edited as I made a mistake; I only found one successful appeal
« Last Edit: August 17, 2024, 02:44:06 pm by Incandescent »

Re: PCN Redbridge - York Road 31J contravention (Yellow box)
« Reply #3 on: »
That's true, its an area with less traffic sense and had waited a while but with cars nipping in it does not help.

Here is the image of the PCN to see if it contains errors of content for a review:

https://imgur.com/a/GBgQBZu

I did see another post but there were no updates further, looks like op has decided to pay it off using discount.

Re: PCN Redbridge - York Road 31J contravention (Yellow box)
« Reply #4 on: »
If the PCN is paid, it's game over.

Re: PCN Redbridge - York Road 31J contravention (Yellow box)
« Reply #5 on: »
The PCN hasn't been paid yet, and I wanted to hear views before making the payment. If the chances aren't good, it might not be worth risking the full amount.

Re: PCN Redbridge - York Road 31J contravention (Yellow box)
« Reply #6 on: »
I'm trying to make representations and this is the option I get where I must select any ONE of the listed reasons which seems to contradict the PCN.


Re: PCN Redbridge - York Road 31J contravention (Yellow box)
« Reply #7 on: »
Deemed date of service is 16th. Deadline to make reps. is 12th September.

1. Do not make reps. at this moment in time as they have a habit of issuing Charge Certificates. 2240175190.

2. The website limits to one ground which flies in the face of the PCN and the law.  And it is incomplete as opposed to the PCN.

As discussed , happy to do this one for you.

We can formulate the reps.later.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2024, 10:22:23 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: PCN Redbridge - York Road 31J contravention (Yellow box)
« Reply #8 on: »
Just got your whats app message. You should have made reps. by 12th September.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: PCN Redbridge - York Road 31J contravention (Yellow box)
« Reply #9 on: »
@Hippocrates so what's going on with this?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: PCN Redbridge - York Road 31J contravention (Yellow box)
« Reply #10 on: »
@cp8759 Unfortunately, the deadline was missed. I have advised the OP to ask them to use their discretion and accept late reps. due to personal circumstances. C.C. issued on 12th Sept.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2024, 10:44:50 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r