Author Topic: Newham PCN - parking contravention (code 12) - need help on how to appeal please  (Read 1700 times)

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Do you have a permit for any Newham RPZ/CPZ?
Do you have a permit for the zone(s?) S N W?
(according to
https://www.newham.gov.uk/parking-permits/parking-newham/6
this would be Stratford North West)

What was your route into Zone SNW? (See
https://lbnewham.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=6c213298647e4283a537266c72c1d086  )

So you/we can check for the presence of RPZ signs at the point you entered.

Did you look at the sign across the road from the houses? (you were parked on the houses side?)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2024, 01:12:49 pm by John U.K. »

OP, the law in this case:

Traffic signs
18.—(1) Where an order relating to any road has been made, the order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to secure—

.....that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road;


With parking places the norm is that they are self-contained and that each sign conveys all the required info.

But this is not required by law i.e. the boundaries of adequate have been widened to include information which affects parking places being permitted to be displayed on CPZ entry signs where these exist.

You were parked within a CPZ whose signs would ordinarily have no effect on parking places within. Except that if 'event day' info was displayed prominently on each then this has been held to meet the test of 'adequacy'.

You do not need to know what is an 'event', this isn't your burden. The council must display adequate information which informs a motorist of 'event days' however 'event' is defined.

Hence why you are being asked about your route so that the signs you passed can be identified.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2024, 01:24:12 pm by H C Andersen »

What was your route into Zone SNW? (See
https://lbnewham.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=6c213298647e4283a537266c72c1d086  )

So you/we can check for the presence of RPZ signs at the point you entered.

I'm also concerned about your route since you don't seem to understand road signs.
Chandos is in a low traffic neighbourhood and you very likely passed a 619 No Motor Vehicles sign to get there. That would mean a further PCN in the post.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2024, 08:56:16 pm by cp8759 »

This is one of the signs at the entry into SNW

https://maps.app.goo.gl/VjzxW3BSrRzBcDDD7
thanks but no this is not where i entered Chandos road, i entered chandos road via A112 from stratford shopping centre
« Last Edit: June 13, 2024, 08:56:25 pm by cp8759 »

OP, the law in this case:

Traffic signs
18.—(1) Where an order relating to any road has been made, the order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to secure—

.....that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road;


With parking places the norm is that they are self-contained and that each sign conveys all the required info.

But this is not required by law i.e. the boundaries of adequate have been widened to include information which affects parking places being permitted to be displayed on CPZ entry signs where these exist.

You were parked within a CPZ whose signs would ordinarily have no effect on parking places within. Except that if 'event day' info was displayed prominently on each then this has been held to meet the test of 'adequacy'.

You do not need to know what is an 'event', this isn't your burden. The council must display adequate information which informs a motorist of 'event days' however 'event' is defined.

Hence why you are being asked about your route so that the signs you passed can be identified.
thanks! i do not see any sign showing there are any events on my route to Chandos road, does that mean it is likely to be the council's shortcoming in providing inadequate sinage?

Do you have a permit for any Newham RPZ/CPZ?
Do you have a permit for the zone(s?) S N W?
(according to
https://www.newham.gov.uk/parking-permits/parking-newham/6
this would be Stratford North West)

What was your route into Zone SNW? (See
https://lbnewham.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=6c213298647e4283a537266c72c1d086  )

So you/we can check for the presence of RPZ signs at the point you entered.

Did you look at the sign across the road from the houses? (you were parked on the houses side?)
thanks, i entered Chandos road via road A112 from stratford shopping centre direction

thanks! i do not see any sign showing there are any events on my route to Chandos road, does that mean it is likely to be the council's shortcoming in providing inadequate sinage?
No. Sorry to be harsh but much more likely it's your failing.

You passed these signs on Leyton Road.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/xbNPohQVbEKh2uTB8
« Last Edit: June 13, 2024, 08:59:58 pm by cp8759 »

@Vince138 you were parked in the Stratford NW controlled parking zone according to the council map:



The council photos do not actually evidence a contravention:















I'm not aware that Newham have ever evidenced any event zone entrance signage, but let's start with the basics: where exactly did you cross the zone boundary?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Quote
I'm not aware that Newham have ever evidenced any event zone entrance signage, but let's start with the basics: where exactly did you cross the zone boundary? - CP8759

@cp8759

Please see my post Reply#4 above yours.

A partial answer is here

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/parking-contravention-(chandos-road-residential-parking)-newham-pcn-need-help-on/msg25739/#msg25739


Quote
I'm not aware that Newham have ever evidenced any event zone entrance signage, but let's start with the basics: where exactly did you cross the zone boundary? - CP8759

@cp8759

Please see my post Reply#4 above yours.

A partial answer is here

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/parking-contravention-(chandos-road-residential-parking)-newham-pcn-need-help-on/msg25739/#msg25739
I posted a correct GSV link last night in the original thread, which is on page two.
Maybe he didn't like seeing that so continued here instead?


@Vince138 I have now merged your threads, if you start another one about the same PCN I'm just going to delete it so please do not do that again. You may want to just bookmark this thread, I also suggest when you next reply you tick the "Notify me of replies" option under "Attachments and other options".

Anyway, the PCN appears to be because you were parked in a bay on an event day, and the posts above suggest you passed these signs: https://maps.app.goo.gl/xbNPohQVbEKh2uTB8

To my recollection, Newham have never been able to substantiate at adjudication that these signs were displaying the relevant event days were displayed on the zone entry signs.

It would be helpful if you could go back and get us some updated photos of those signs.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

@Vince138 I have now merged your threads, if you start another one about the same PCN I'm just going to delete it so please do not do that again. You may want to just bookmark this thread, I also suggest when you next reply you tick the "Notify me of replies" option under "Attachments and other options".

Anyway, the PCN appears to be because you were parked in a bay on an event day, and the posts above suggest you passed these signs: https://maps.app.goo.gl/xbNPohQVbEKh2uTB8

To my recollection, Newham have never been able to substantiate at adjudication that these signs were displaying the relevant event days were displayed on the zone entry signs.

It would be helpful if you could go back and get us some updated photos of those signs.
thanks a lot for your reply, i think i might have indeed passed this control point as Neil B has pointed out:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/xbNPohQVbEKh2uTB8

however that is still quite far from Chandos road, am i wrong in thinking that the council should have put up the event information signage on Chandos road itself?

also i really cannot remember seeing any event date signage at the control point but i could be wrong....not sure how to go back and check 11th June

thanks all for your kind help and advice so far. and sorry again for not being familiar with the rule before posting duplicated replies.