Author Topic: PCN - North Essex - CC 12  (Read 836 times)

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PCN - North Essex - CC 12
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Hey all,

Council Name:North Essex Parking Partnership / Essex County Council / Epping Forest
Location: Loughton
Code: 12
Alleged Contravention: Parked in a residents' or shared use parking place or zone without clearly displaying either a permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place

PCN FRONT
PCN BACK


In need of a little bit of advice here. Not sure if this is actually a legit mistake by me or if I have some grounds to challenge?

SITUATION
Late last night, I parked in this location (GSV link) in Essex.
I genuinely believed this was not a controlled parking area - there are no signs nearby, the closest is in front of the houses much further along. (PIC).
The next lampost along just on the bend does not have any sign on it about parking restrictions (PIC 1) (PIC 2).
There are no road markings painted on the road indicating where restrictions are in place (PIC).
I assumed it was only in front of the buildings - so I parked further down, well away from any signs/buildings and on the far side of the drop kerb in front of the last house (PIC 1) (PIC 2).
Then when I went to drive off today, I had a ticket stating I'd parked without a permit in a controlled area. The ticket is 'only' £35, so worst-case scenario I can afford to pay this. But do I have any grounds to challenge this on unclear signage/markings? It really is not clear where the resident's parking zone starts/ends.

Thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: May 13, 2024, 10:26:44 pm by mang0 »

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Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
« Reply #1 on: »
Quote
It really is not clear where the resident's parking zone starts/ends.
Well, it is, but you seem to have missed this sign, or the one where you entered this resident permit parking zone.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/sGZ2czk87bqMiP9m6
These zones are the invention of the Devil, because if you miss the entry sign, there is normally nothing to indicate you are in a residents-only parking zone. However the council have put up repeater signs, (your PIC). Of course, one can see why this zone has been created here, because Debden Underground Station is only a short walk away; it is there to stop people with cars wanting to travel into London on the Central Line, from clogging up the local streets during the day.

I think it is remiss of the council to only put up one sign at the entry, and you could challenge this as not complying with their signing duty under LATOR regulations.

The PCN is also not correct with the information on the back, and, in fact is highly misleading in my opinion. It tells you, if you submit representations they will be considered, and then goes on to tell you that further reps can be submitted with the Notice to Owner.  But this is what the regulation requires : -

extract from The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022
Quote
Information about right to make representations or appeal to be included in regulation 9 penalty charge notices and enforcement notices
3.—(1) A regulation 9 penalty charge notice must include the following information—

(a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served may, in accordance with these Regulations, make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and, if those representations are rejected, appeal to an adjudicator;
(b)that if, before a notice to owner is served, representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified in the notice for the purpose those representations will be considered by the enforcement authority;
(c)that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.

Barking & Dagenham are a notoriously dozy council from forum experience, so wait a bit to see what others say.
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Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
« Reply #2 on: »
Quote
I think it is remiss of the council to only put up one sign at the entry, and you could challenge this as not complying with their signing duty under LATOR regulations.

Thank you very much for your reply. I appreciate it very much - and while I do understand I could have missed that sign, I wonder if there is another sign in the other "side" of the zone. There are lots of ways into that area, and most posts do not have repeater signs on them so if you miss that one coming off the main road then you're unlikely to see another. However I do appreciate that there is a sign there that one could argue I missed/ignored so perhaps I can't really argue that much!

As for the point about the wording on the PCN - I don't know enough about it to be able to comment on that, but yes perhaps that is a way in.

As you suggest, I'll await further advice too. Thanks for your time.

Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
« Reply #3 on: »
@mang0 I have found the traffic order and the order schedule, there are several entrances to the zone so it is worth working out exactly where you entered the zone and then checking the zone entrance signs at that location. Is the person you were visiting able to check?

Also I presume you were visiting someone within the zone, if so could they not provide a visitor's permit for you? If you were a legitimate visitor then you might be able to persuade the council to afford a discretionary cancellation, but you need to confirm whether you were visiting someone within the zone please.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
« Reply #4 on: »
@mang0 I have found the traffic order and the order schedule, there are several entrances to the zone so it is worth working out exactly where you entered the zone and then checking the zone entrance signs at that location. Is the person you were visiting able to check?

Also I presume you were visiting someone within the zone, if so could they not provide a visitor's permit for you? If you were a legitimate visitor then you might be able to persuade the council to afford a discretionary cancellation, but you need to confirm whether you were visiting someone within the zone please.

Hi @cp8759 - thanks for your response.

I did drive past one of the signs unfortunately! Just made an assumption that as there was no repeater sign on the nearest post, that section was outside the restricted zone. So that's totally my error. My partner lives there in an off-street property right next to Ladyfields with no road access/driveway to park on and I was parking visiting her. I have since discovered online that I can actually pay for parking daily on Ladyfields via the MiPermit app, even though there are no signs indicating this on the road. It is about £5 for the restriction time of 10am - 4pm, which I don't mind paying on the odd occasions I have my car there (usually I don't take the car).

Advice appreciated.

Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
« Reply #5 on: »
@mang0 do you have any mitigating circumstances, especially anything unconnected to the contravention itself?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
« Reply #6 on: »
@mang0 do you have any mitigating circumstances, especially anything unconnected to the contravention itself?

What might be an unrelated mitigating circumstance in this instance? I don't really think I do...  :-\

Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
« Reply #7 on: »
I only have a couple of days to respond to this/pay the fine, so unless anyone has any suggestions I think I'll attempt contesting based on unclear signage and see what happens. The back of the PCN states that if they reject a contest they will generally extend' the discounted period so I would anticipate it will remain at £35. Thanks for the assistance so far.

Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
« Reply #8 on: »
@mang0 I assume you've sent something so please show us what you've sent. As a general rule in a case like this you want to say that you're a genuine visitor and you are now aware of the need to obtain a permit etc, but we'll just have to wait and see what comes back.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
« Reply #9 on: »
Ah - thanks @cp8759. I don't hold out much hope for this anyway, but below is what I sent. I thought the signage being unclear (which I do believe it was, as I misunderstood, even if there are technically signs!) would be a stronger argument, perhaps I should have gone with the visitor card as you suggest. Anyway, here:

Quote
Dear Sir/Madam,

I am challenging this PCN on the grounds of unclear and inadequate signage and road markings.

The sign photographed by the CEO stating 'Resident Permit Holders Only' is way down the road in front of the houses, and not visible from where I am parked, as clearly evidenced by the photos the CEO themself has provided (attached as PIC 7 to this challenge - you can not see any sign about parking affixed to the post in the photo). From where I was parked it was not possible to see this sign, and as there are no road markings it is impossible to know where any restrictions could be in place. (Please refer to PIC 5).

Measurements I have taken on Google Maps, it is 53 meters between the repeater sign the CEO photographed and where I parked (PIC 8 ). The nearest post where a repeater sign could be affixed did not have any sign detailing any restrictions. (Please refer to PIC 3). As such, even if one could see the sign the CEO photographed from where I parked, as there are no road/bay markings one would logically assume parking restrictions are in place in front of the properties, not where I parked as shown in the photos. Regardless of this, I made sure not to park in front of the properties, instead parking my car beyond the buildings, where there is no reason to assume residents will be parking.

Further to this, the signage shown by the CEO does not state that it is possible to pay to park at this location via the MiPermit app. However on MiPermit you can specify to park at Ladyfields - and it does not specify there is a part of the road you can not park on. Therefore this sign should be specified as a 'Resident Permit Holders or Pay and Display', but it does not specify that anywhere in the local area. The only way to find this out is through the MiPermit app itself.

To conclude, I believe this PCN is not valid due to unclear and incorrect signs, lack of road markings.

Many Thanks,

Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
« Reply #10 on: »
I'm sorry to say that the signage is perfectly valid because once you enter a zone, you must assume the zone carries on forever unless and until you pass an "end of zone" sign. If there were no repeater signs in a very large zone that could rebut the assumption that you should know you're in the zone, but by your own admission there were repeaters which you saw.

The fundamental issue with your (mis)understanding of the signs is that either you're inside a zone, or you're not. It cannot be that there are signs and you are subject to them or not depending on how far you are from the sign, because that would render the whole concept entirely arbitrary: how could you determine how far from a sign is far enough? Given that most traffic signs impose strict liability, that would be far too vague, hence the start and of the restricted area must be clearly defined either by zone entry/exit signs, so you can know with certainty where you're inside the zone or not. Unfortunately while you might not have known any of this when you parked, ignorance of the law is no defence.

I would seriously recommend you make an additional representation as follows:

Dear Essex County Council,

Having taken legal advice, I now understand the entire zone is subject to statutory controls and the area where I parked is restricted irrespective of the distance to the nearest repeater.

Nonetheless I contend that the alleged contravention did not occur, because the signs fail to adequately convey the effect of the traffic order. I have now discovered online that I can actually pay £5 for a visitor's permit via the MiPermit app, even though there are no signs indicating this on the road. If the signs had informed me of the availability of a visitor's parking permit, I would have bought one at the time and the CEO would have found a record thereof on his hand-held device.

As the authority has failed to bring this key aspect of the traffic regulation order to the attention of motorists, the authority has not discharged its duties under regulation 18(1) of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996, and it follows that the contravention did not occur.

Yours faithfully,


Of course the council will reject no matter what you say (you should always assume it will be necessary to appeal to the tribunal), but this is a contention that is at least arguable, while what you've put in your formal representation is not.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
« Reply #11 on: »
Okay, bizarre situation now - @cp8759 I took your advice and sent a second representation in, fully expecting, as you, that it would all be rejected.

I have just received the rejection HERE which as expected says "tough luck, you missed the signs and we think they were fine".

However, at the end of the letter, it says:
Quote
...the Penalty Charge Notice has been issued correctly and your challenge has been rejected. As you have paid the Penalty Charge Notice, no further action is required.

Now - I have not paid the PCN at all! Do I need to get back to them and explain this, or is this one of those situations where ignorance is bliss and I take what they said and move on with my life?

Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
« Reply #12 on: »
Check the status of the PCN on their website. If they show it as paid, then no Notice to Owner will be served.

Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
« Reply #13 on: »
Check the status of the PCN on their website. If they show it as paid, then no Notice to Owner will be served.

I can't seem to pull it up at all - SCREENSHOT here of the page.

Payment site: https://www.paynotice.co.uk/NEPP
PCN: II28201234
Reg: FA04BXB
"The combination of Penalty Charge Notice number and vehicle registration could not be found.  Please ensure that the details you have entered are correct"

It seems like it has been wiped from their system?!

Re: PCN - North Essex - CC 12
« Reply #14 on: »
I get the same result, so it looks as if they've cancelled the PCN, lucky you !

Are you the V5 Registratiion Certificate holder for the car ?  They may play silly-buggers, so don't throw anything away yet.