Author Topic: PCN - Loading Bay - Code 25 - Bradford  (Read 122 times)

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Admiration

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PCN - Loading Bay - Code 25 - Bradford
« on: May 17, 2024, 06:04:00 pm »
Date of incident: 17/05/2024
Date of PCN: 17/05/2024

Hi

First, thank you so much for continuing the good and helpful work.

I visited a visa office on North Parade - central two weeks ago, and parked in the paid areas. Today, I went there again to submit some documents, and parked in the paid areas again. Before parking, I saw disabled only sign, with yellow line, so I skipped that area, and parked towards the end of that parking area (between the European market store and record store), the google plus location is Q6XV+25 Bradford.

I bought ticket from the machine, displayed it on my windscreen, and went for my appointment. There was a driving instructor's car parked in front of me, who left when I arrived, so I parked my car in that space believing it to be a normal parking area. I did not think much as it was my appointment time so I quickly paid for the parking, and left.

Once I came back, I found the PCN on my windscreen. When I checked, it was for code 25. I was surprised, so I checked the signs again. After two three attempts, I found the difference between the signs, which are on both sides of the road that this side was a loading space. During this time, I first thought the yellow line was the dedicated area for loading and disabled parking but on third attempt, I thought I might be reading it wrong and checked carefully.

I also noticed that I am not the only one. There three other cars behind mine, and all had the tickets.

Now, I can understand that the ticket was for code 25, but the markings on both side of the road are identical, the signs are exactly same at the height of a regular human being, and that yellow line tricked me thinking that was the dedicated area for not to park.

Could I please get some advise on:
1. Should I appeal this (I would like to as it was not a deliberate mistake. I did not realise it to be the loading area. I paid for the parking and displayed my ticket correctly too)?
2. How can this be cancelled please? Already paid hefty fee of visas and came out to see this charge :(

All Images of the PCN, area where it happened and signs - https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/kqgjotwqb5bemieec41l7/AHkkWYJ3_oaaWA1rndELoek?rlkey=6fkhc4v20d3am1441pn0fcws6&st=bhfenu70&dl=0


Please advise.

Many thanks

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Incandescent

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Re: PCN - Loading Bay - Code 25 - Bradford
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2024, 11:01:12 pm »
OK, so you were parked here: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/3HyWHPYjYsTPzyxH8
and if you zoom and look at the parking restrictions sign for the bay you'll see it is for Loading Only between 8 am and 6 pm. Your PCN is timed at 10.14 so well within the Loading Only period. So it looks as if the PCN has been correctly issued. It is essential when parking in a marked bay that you look for the bay restrictions sign, and make sure you understand what the restrictions are for that bay. For this bay, it is Loading Only for part of the day, then paid parking for any vehicle, then free-to-park from midnight to 8 am.

As far as I can see the PCN looks OK

Don't rush to pay straightaway, but wait a bit to see if anybody has spotted something I haven't.

cp8759

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Re: PCN - Loading Bay - Code 25 - Bradford
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2024, 07:13:52 pm »
@Admiration well the signage looks like a completely unlawful mish-mash to me, but we need to carry out some basic checks. Please read the guidance here and re-post the PCN without any redactions.

The traffic order is the City of Bradford Metropolitan District Council (Waiting, Loading and Parking) (Consolidation) Order 2015 and the map tile is BO56, but obviously the one we have is now out of date so I've requested the latest one.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2024, 07:28:05 pm by cp8759 »
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Admiration

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Re: PCN - Loading Bay - Code 25 - Bradford
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2024, 10:13:01 pm »
Thank you @cp8759

Really appreciate for you to look into this.

Please find the clean picture of PCN here https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/en6jy5celse5pgivq21qy/PCN-Front-Clean.jpg?rlkey=l70en2oqvbjtf6fvlxcno0hp4&st=yrbzspxq&dl=0

Please advise - shall I appeal within 14 days to avoid lapsing the discounted charge, in case I am having to pay in the future?

PCN received on 17/05/2024 so the 14 days ending on 30/05/2024.

Many Thanks


@Admiration well the signage looks like a completely unlawful mish-mash to me, but we need to carry out some basic checks. Please read the guidance here and re-post the PCN without any redactions.

The traffic order is the City of Bradford Metropolitan District Council (Waiting, Loading and Parking) (Consolidation) Order 2015 and the map tile is BO56, but obviously the one we have is now out of date so I've requested the latest one.

Admiration

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Re: PCN - Loading Bay - Code 25 - Bradford
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2024, 10:14:57 pm »
Thank you for looking into this for me.

I am now waiting for cp8759 response.

Many Thanks

OK, so you were parked here: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/3HyWHPYjYsTPzyxH8
and if you zoom and look at the parking restrictions sign for the bay you'll see it is for Loading Only between 8 am and 6 pm. Your PCN is timed at 10.14 so well within the Loading Only period. So it looks as if the PCN has been correctly issued. It is essential when parking in a marked bay that you look for the bay restrictions sign, and make sure you understand what the restrictions are for that bay. For this bay, it is Loading Only for part of the day, then paid parking for any vehicle, then free-to-park from midnight to 8 am.

As far as I can see the PCN looks OK

Don't rush to pay straightaway, but wait a bit to see if anybody has spotted something I haven't.

cp8759

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Re: PCN - Loading Bay - Code 25 - Bradford
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2024, 11:20:52 am »
Here are the council photos:











@Admiration firstly don't worry too much about the discount, even if your representation is rejected. In our experience if you receive the notice to owner and challenge it again within 14 days, the discount will be reoffered again, so as a minimum you want to take this as far as formal representations against the notice to owner.

It is essential we get the updated map tile to properly weigh up your chances at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, so for now we mostly need to buy time. For that limited purpose something like this will do:

Dear City of Bradford Metropolitan District Council,

I had parked in a pay and display bay previously at this location; on this occasion there was a driving instructor's car parked in the bay to my left who departed, so I parked my car in that space believing it to be a normal parking bay. Before parking I saw disabled only sign, with a broad yellow line, so I made sure not to park in that area. I did not think much as it was my appointment time so I bought a ticket from the machine, displayed it on my windscreen, and went for my appointment. I attach proof of payment for your records.

At the time of the alleged contravention I was visiting a visa office on North Parade.

Upon receiving the penalty charge I was confused and I had to check the sign several times before I realised the difference to the signs situated on the opposite side of the carriageway.

I will definitely be far more careful in the future but I hope you will be able to show some leniency for a genuine mistake.

Yours faithfully,

Send this online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Admiration

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Re: PCN - Loading Bay - Code 25 - Bradford
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2024, 12:50:08 pm »
Thank you so much @cp8759. I have filled their form with my details and the message you suggested and attached the picture of the ticket I bought that day (from the machine nearby). I will update you here once I get a response.



@Admiration firstly don't worry too much about the discount, even if your representation is rejected. In our experience if you receive the notice to owner and challenge it again within 14 days, the discount will be reoffered again, so as a minimum you want to take this as far as formal representations against the notice to owner.

It is essential we get the updated map tile to properly weigh up your chances at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, so for now we mostly need to buy time. For that limited purpose something like this will do:

Dear City of Bradford Metropolitan District Council,

I had parked in a pay and display bay previously at this location; on this occasion there was a driving instructor's car parked in the bay to my left who departed, so I parked my car in that space believing it to be a normal parking bay. Before parking I saw disabled only sign, with a broad yellow line, so I made sure not to park in that area. I did not think much as it was my appointment time so I bought a ticket from the machine, displayed it on my windscreen, and went for my appointment. I attach proof of payment for your records.

At the time of the alleged contravention I was visiting a visa office on North Parade.

Upon receiving the penalty charge I was confused and I had to check the sign several times before I realised the difference to the signs situated on the opposite side of the carriageway.

I will definitely be far more careful in the future but I hope you will be able to show some leniency for a genuine mistake.

Yours faithfully,

Send this online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2024, 12:51:44 pm by Admiration »

cp8759

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Re: PCN - Loading Bay - Code 25 - Bradford
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2024, 10:01:14 am »
Map tile BO56 as it was in force on 17 May 2024
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Admiration

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Re: PCN - Loading Bay - Code 25 - Bradford
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2024, 01:28:58 pm »
Thanks dear. I hope my appeal is accepted. There is a 4 week delay in their responses as per their email so waiting for their response now.

Map tile BO56 as it was in force on 17 May 2024

Admiration

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Re: PCN - Loading Bay - Code 25 - Bradford
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2024, 10:31:32 am »
Hi @cp8759

Just got their response (please see below):

Department of Place
Parking Services
PO Box 848
BRADFORD
BD1 5UH
Tel (01274) 434300
Web: www.bradford.gov.uk

Date: 11/06/2024

Dear xxx

Penalty Charge Notice Number – BQ26906179 Dated – 17/05/2024

Location of Contravention – North Parade - Central Registration number – AF08GNN

Thank you for writing to us and explaining that you paid for parking while you were visiting the visa office.
We have considered what you say but we have decided not to cancel your Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).

You were given a PCN for parking in a loading bay without loading. The Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) observed your vehicle and saw no loading or unloading taking place. Loading must be continuous for up to a maximum of 30 minutes.

The arrow points to the pay and display bay where you can park with a ticket. The place you parked in was the loading bay.

The enclosed photo helps to show why your PCN was given. You can also view photographic evidence of your case online at www.bradford.gov.uk. Click 'Pay or challenge your Penalty Charge Notice' and follow the instructions.

You have these choices:

• You can pay the discount charge of £35.00 if your payment reaches us within 14 days of the date of this letter.
• You can pay £70.00 within 28 days of the date your PCN was issued.
• You can formally challenge your PCN by using a Notice to Owner form. The vehicle's owner will automatically receive the form if the PCN has not been paid within 28 days of being issued. The form offers you the chance to formally challenge your PCN or pay the full £70.00. If you decide to formally challenge your PCN, please do not write to us again but wait until the Notice to Owner form arrives.


HOW TO PAY
• By telephone Credit I debit card payments only. Automated payment line 0345 145 0071 (24 Hours a day, 7 days a week). Have card and vehicle details and PCN number ready. Please allow one working day before paying.
• Online at www.bradford.gov.uk. Follow links for online payments
• By post to: Payments, PO Box 1249, Bradford, BD1 9YW. Cheques to be made payable to “Bradford Council”.
• In person:
Find out where your nearest Paypoint is: www.paypoint.co.uk/paypointlocator
Take this letter to any PayPoint.
Pay by cash only.

Yours sincerely
Parking Services



The actual letter can be viewed here: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/h4wm4ysbrb05ov8wf356o/Emailing-19D67BF97F130.pdf?rlkey=u5uiud194m1mer129rc2t9ims&st=6bctsebh&dl=0

@cp8759 - what should I do now please?

Many Thanks

cp8759

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Re: PCN - Loading Bay - Code 25 - Bradford
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2024, 11:49:40 am »
@Admiration I would suggest waiting for the notice to owner. As long as you challenge it within 14 days of the date of issue the discount should be reoffered anyway, so there is limited risk in carrying on.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Admiration

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Re: PCN - Loading Bay - Code 25 - Bradford
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2024, 02:48:11 pm »
Thank you.

Could I please check, if I challenge it, after receiving NTO, what are the chances of getting it cancelled?

@Admiration I would suggest waiting for the notice to owner. As long as you challenge it within 14 days of the date of issue the discount should be reoffered anyway, so there is limited risk in carrying on.