3. PCN in Council car park, ticket machine printed incorrectly. West Lindsey
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PCN in Council car park, ticket machine printed incorrectly. West Lindsey
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Wifey parked in a local council car park for work. She paid for a ticket but the machine did not print the first 3 parts of the registration number ie should be AA11AAA, but printed 1AAA (make sense?!)

She looked for the ticket guy, couldn't be found and so she left the ticket and a note on her dashboard explaining what had happened and went and did her thing. Came back and found she had received a PCN for not displaying a valid ticket.

Now she has only just told me this AFTER she has gone onto the council website to challenge the ticket explaining that the machine was faulty.

Is what she has done correct? As it's a council issued ticket, should we just pay the fine before they double it?

Thanks all,
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Re: PCN in Council car park, ticket machine printed incorrectly. West Lindsey
« Reply #1 on: »
Please read this and update your post accordingly.
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

No good advice can be give unless we see the PCN and also their response to your wifes's challenge. In addition, who is the keeper of the car (who is on the V5 Registration Certificate)

If you pay now, the matter is closed and you cannot take the matter forward even if you want to.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2024, 10:44:22 pm by Incandescent »
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Re: PCN in Council car park, ticket machine printed incorrectly. West Lindsey
« Reply #2 on: »
Thanks.

Wife is the keeper on the V5.





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Re: PCN in Council car park, ticket machine printed incorrectly. West Lindsey
« Reply #3 on: »

https://www.councilparking.org/lincsdistricts/challenge/pages/OnlineChallengeEntry.aspx

You say your wife has challenged, presumably through the link above, therefore the discount is secure.

Wifey parked in a local council car park for work.

So, a regular user or one-off? Familiarity with the machines and procedures or not?
The m/c has a window in which the user can check their input prior to paying, or not?

We're just filling in gaps: she's challenged; the discount's secure; wait for response.
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Re: PCN in Council car park, ticket machine printed incorrectly. West Lindsey
« Reply #4 on: »
You say your wife has challenged, presumably through the link above, therefore the discount is secure - yes, through link you posted.

Wifey parked in a local council car park for work - yes.

So, a regular user or one-off? 5 - 6 times per year.

Familiarity with the machines and procedures or not? Not really, 5 - 6 times per year.

The m/c has a window in which the user can check their input prior to paying, or not? Yes.
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Re: PCN in Council car park, ticket machine printed incorrectly. West Lindsey
« Reply #5 on: »
Did your wife check the machine display before printing the ticket ?
Obviously, it would be best if the machines checked the validity of the registration number, but they don't because that would need a comms link. Also the machines have to be able to accept personal number plates as well, which can be quite short.  We've seen this before, and only if the Order for the car park has no requirement to enter the reg number have you an argument, otherwise and reps are for mitigation only. Adjudicators cannot consider mitigation.
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Re: PCN in Council car park, ticket machine printed incorrectly. West Lindsey
« Reply #6 on: »
She says she checked the display and i guess there is a requirement to enter the reg otherwise that wouldn't be an option?

I guess we'll pay the £25. Thanks for the advice and help.
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Re: PCN in Council car park, ticket machine printed incorrectly. West Lindsey
« Reply #7 on: »

I guess we'll pay the £25

May be the optimum outcome in time.

Why are you so hell-bent on paying now: the discount is secure and they might cancel on consideration of her reps.

Paying now seems foolish.
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Re: PCN in Council car park, ticket machine printed incorrectly. West Lindsey
« Reply #8 on: »
Yes, we will wait to see what they come back with first.
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Re: PCN in Council car park, ticket machine printed incorrectly. West Lindsey
« Reply #9 on: »
 :)
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Re: PCN in Council car park, ticket machine printed incorrectly. West Lindsey
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: ivrytwr1 on February 10, 2024, 09:54:48 am
She says she checked the display and i guess there is a requirement to enter the reg otherwise that wouldn't be an option?
@ivrytwr1 nah, don't make silly assumptions like that. Redbridge council insists you must input the number plate but it's not a requirement that the VRM be printed on the pay and display ticket, see Paul Van Staden v London Borough of Redbridge (2220910825, 14 January 2023) and Fozia Rehman v London Borough of Redbridge (2230182021, 20 May 2023).

Are you the registered keeper and do you have the V5C?

While we wait I'll get hold of the parking places order.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: PCN in Council car park, ticket machine printed incorrectly. West Lindsey
« Reply #11 on: »
Ever wondered why so many councils want the reg number on the ticket ?  It's because all parking tickets are what is called "non-transferable". In other words you cannot pass on a part-used ticket to another motorist to use up the unused time.  Railway tickets are the same, (or used to be !!). Very hard to check on, but with more sophisticated ticket machines, much easier, just put a keyboard on the machine and make ticket issue dependent on entry of the reg number.  However, if this requirement is not added in to the TRO for the car park, a wrong reg number on a ticket cannot be enforced using the decriminalised parking regime
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Re: PCN in Council car park, ticket machine printed incorrectly. West Lindsey
« Reply #12 on: »
Rejected appeal:





They have held the £25 reduced payment until 20 Mar 24.
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Re: PCN in Council car park, ticket machine printed incorrectly. West Lindsey
« Reply #13 on: »
I think I'd be taking them to adjudication on the basis that entry of reg. number is not a requirement of the TRO for the parking location, but you'd have to check this. A very arrogant reply, IMHO, such that I'd hold their hand to the fire if it were me, but it's your money, not mine. Essentially you'd be taking a double-or-quits gamble.
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Re: PCN in Council car park, ticket machine printed incorrectly. West Lindsey
« Reply #14 on: »
The West Lindsey District Council (Off-Street Parking Places) (Civil Enforcement) Order 2022 has no provisions about the number plate being printed anywhere at all, it is simply not a legal requirement.

I would definitely wait for the notice to owner.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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