Author Topic: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child  (Read 1766 times)

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Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #15 on: »
Please post the PCN your challenge and the response in full so we can help.

I found the PCN! I dismantled my glove box and found that it had fallen internally behind the middle part of the dashboard. Unbelievable.

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Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #16 on: »
Apart from the fact the PCN should never have been served in the first place, it is also flawed because it does not contain all the information mandated in the regulations: -

CHAPTER 1
Information to be included in regulation 9 penalty charge notices and enforcement notices

Information about right to make representations or appeal to be included in regulation 9 penalty charge notices and enforcement notices
3.—(1) A regulation 9 penalty charge notice must include the following information—

(a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served may, in accordance with these Regulations, make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and, if those representations are rejected, appeal to an adjudicator;
(b)that if, before a notice to owner is served, representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified in the notice for the purpose those representations will be considered by the enforcement authority;
(c)that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2022/9780348232752/part/2/chapter/1
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Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #17 on: »
OP, I don't want to place more burdens upon you, but at present I cannot follow your account entirely.

And as regards the events, the authority might well be sceptical about why, when you live next to the school, you arranged for your wife to bring your son to a different location, presumably within walking distance and therefore no distance by car, instead of just driving to the school/your house which must be far more convenient and a safer place to make the exchange than a shop on a High Street.

Sorry to mention this, but it's a glaring issue because at no time did the holder of the BB actually appear and all the CEO managed to do was to speak to an unknown person on the phone.

If there's an obvious reason to not meet at the house - perhaps you don't live there any more or whatever - then I think you might need to reveal. Alternatively, if the PCN omits the mandatory info then you could lead with this and outline the collection issue which would give them the opportunity to cancel other than by accepting that their printed PCNs are defective.

And as regards 'the PCN should never have been issued', the car was not used within the conditions applicable to parking in a disabled bay, all we have is your account of your intentions. But why should the authority simply accept this without supporting evidence, and what evidence would convince them?

From the school perhaps...'at approx. *** on ** a call was made to ****, the nominated contact person for ***, one of our pupils, advising/requesting ** and it was agreed that *** would collect him from school early..'
« Last Edit: March 20, 2024, 04:27:01 pm by H C Andersen »

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #18 on: »
a different location, presumably within walking distance


The meeting place is a twenty or so minute drive away and I was closer to there at the time than I was to home.

Quote
But why should the authority simply accept this without supporting evidence, and what evidence would convince them?

I appreciate you raising this and I'm concerned about gathering evidence as I find this very stressful. The school should be able to back the situation up and my employer should be able to confirm that I didn't come in that morning as planned because I had to pick up my son. The phone call wasn't anonymous, I showed him the contact on the screen. I'll see what I can get together.

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #19 on: »
I have requested the traffic order, last time we had one of these in Herefordshire it turned out the traffic order for the bay didn't exist.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2024, 12:51:51 pm by cp8759 »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

« Last Edit: April 04, 2024, 01:43:58 pm by cp8759 »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #21 on: »
Have not looked through these yet, but for when the NTO comes here are:

Sorry I didn't reply to your previous one - thank you so much for this I'll investigate 🙏

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #22 on: »
Stop worrying i will deal with this for you just post the NTO when you get it

The NTO just arrived. I sincerely appreciate everyone's help and input so far I'm still worrying myself sick about all of this. (edit: there are two extra pages, photos of the car as parked - same ones from the reply to the informal appeal I posted - and photos the CEO took of the front and back of the blue badge)

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« Last Edit: April 15, 2024, 09:14:49 am by Turbulent-Pack-447 »

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #23 on: »
@Turbulent-Pack-447 as you will notice, this is the sort of case that makes my blood boil and is the whole raison d'etre of this website: it is an outrageous example of a deranged council, if you could only use a blue badge if the badge holder is present for both parts of the journey then blue badges would be useless for any disabled persons who cannot drive themselves, as it would be impossible for them to be picked up or dropped off by someone else.

This is the strongest representation I have probably ever drafted, but it is really warranted as there is no way somebody like you should be bullied into fear and submission by a local authority officer who should be redeployed to litter picking duties, or maybe to clean the public toilets. I am obviously offering to represent you at the tribunal should it come to that.

Dear Herefordshire Council,

Having taken legal advice, I challenge PCN HE53223388 on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur.

The starting point is that the blue badge was correctly displayed as you admit in the informal rejection letter of 15 March 2024.

On the day of the alleged contravention, my wife had called me and said our autistic child was having an extremely tough morning and that she thought it was best to take him out of school and drop him off with me so I could take him to a sensory play session, and then take him back to school hopefully much calmer.

I parked my car in a disabled bay, displayed the blue badge and clock, and walked immediately over to a spot in front of a shop to await their arrival. I got a call from the badge issuing office saying I was seen leaving the car without the badge holder and to go and speak to the Civil Enforcement Officer by the car. I went and explained that I was there to collect the badge holder and that they were on their way.

The Officer said that this is not acceptable as the holder has to be present for both parts of the journey, I now know that this is wrong but not having legal advice to hand at the roadside, I was unable to challenge his assertion (not that it would have made any difference anyway and he clearly hasn't been trained correctly, which is your fault).

I was (incorrectly) mortified and explained that I thought I could use the badge for picking up and dropping off (which I now know to be correct). I called my wife, but she didn't answer so the warden issued me a ticket. He did not confiscate the badge.

The officer said to come and find him if I could get hold of her. She eventually called back and explained that she had been quickly cleaning faeces from the bathroom wall that she had just discovered and was now collecting him to bring to me. I found the officer, who spoke to her and made a note of this.

He said I could stay in the space because I had been issued a ticket and couldn't be issued another one and, quite distressed, I said I would prefer to just move my car if I was using the badge incorrectly as he had stated (because I could not know at the time that the CEO was spouting nonsense because you, as his supervisors, are ignorant as to the law and have not trained him properly) and I didn't want to take up a space for somebody else. I spoke to my wife and we decided to collect him later and take him along to the later session instead as I was so distressed.

Looking back at your letter of 15 March 2024 with the benefit of legal advice it is now self-evident that that letter has been written by someone who is entirely ignorant of the relevant law and should be sent on a retraining course. I fear this might be the case of everyone working in your office because no blue badge holder should be worrying himself sick over an incorrectly issued penalty charge notice that has been caused entirely by a local authority whose officers do not know what they are doing.

The blue badge book issued by the Department for Transport clearly states that:

"The badge is for your use and benefit only. It must only be displayed if you are travelling in the vehicle as a driver or passenger, or if someone is collecting you or dropping you off and needs to park at the place where you are being collected or dropped."

Civil parking enforcement is meant to protect people who are legitimately using a blue badge for its intended purpose (as I was doing on the day in question), and you are doing the exact opposite of that, it is apparent that the people in your office are utterly ignorant of this guidance so you should actually take the time and effort to read it, you can find a copy here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-blue-badge-scheme-rights-and-responsibilities-in-england/the-blue-badge-scheme-rights-and-responsibilities-in-england

Furthermore, a blue badge is either on display or it isn't, if a valid blue badge is on display then a code 40 contravention cannot possibly occur. If you are satisfied that the blue badge was being used fraudulently, then you should have the courage of your convictions and you should prosecute me for fraud under the Fraud Act 2006 (good luck with that).

I have retained the services of Mr Ivan Murray-Smith (please do Google him if you don't know who he is) and he will be representing me at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal should you be foolish enough to issue a notice of rejection, and I should forewarn you now that should you issue a notice of rejection that notice will be challenged as being wholly unreasonable and I will be pursuing a costs order against you, even if you  decide not to contest the appeal.

On the other hand, it might be that a trip to the tribunal is needed in order to give you a bit of an education.

I look forward to your prompt response.

Yours faithfully,


We really should take the council to the cleaners for this. Even if they cancel the PCN, we should pursue a formal complaint and require that all officers involved be retrained.

Send the representations online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page. If for some reason the representation won't fit because of a character limit, put it in a PDF document and upload it as an attachment and in the text box write "see attached representation".

If you need any reassurance, you can Google me as well  :)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2024, 01:57:37 pm by cp8759 »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #24 on: »
@Turbulent-Pack-447 as you will notice, this is the sort of case that makes my blood boil and is the whole raison d'etre of this website

I am absolutely blown away by what you have done for me, I could actually cry. This is an amazing letter. I have never seen such kindness and your offer of further representation is deeply appreciated. You have quite the impressive resume in this area!! Since the moment I was accosted I have felt so alienated and alone. The lady on the phone sounded angry. The CEO was confrontational and kept telling me "This is important. This is important." when my nerves were already shot to shreds waiting for my family and wondering what kind of state everyone would be in. He even waved me into the space and I thanked him, it didn't occur to me that I was doing anything wrong. Thank you so so much.

One small detail I have since double checked is the number that called me on the day - This seems to be that of the Hereford Parking Enforcement office, maybe not the badge issuing office as I assumed, but these may be the same thing?

The only part of your superbly strong letter that scares me a bit is the challenge for them to pursue further action, though they would be daft to do so. Considering how much sleep I have lost over something so relatively trivial I would feel sick if I thought I had coaxed them into additional battles. I trust you of course!

Is there any merit to mentioning the lack of required necessary information as mentioned by user Incandescent a few comments ago? It sounds like your argument is enough on its own (and indeed, is the more important one!)

Again, my eternal thanks for your help and I cannot commend you enough for what you are doing for people like us.

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #25 on: »
The only part of your superbly strong letter that scares me a bit is the challenge for them to pursue further action, though they would be daft to do so. Considering how much sleep I have lost over something so relatively trivial I would feel sick if I thought I had coaxed them into additional battles.
I would not have put that in if I thought there was the remotest chance of them actually doing so, the likelihood of the council actually pursuing that is zero. This is not lease because while a PCN only needs evidence on the balance of probabilities, a charge of fraud would require evidence beyond reasonable doubt (which means that if the evidence were to show that you were probably misusing the blue badge that would not be enough because it would leave a chance that you might be innocent so a court would acquit you). There is also the fact that such charges would have to go through the council's legal department that employs people who have actually been to law school, rather than the bunch of clowns who work in parking enforcement, and there is no way a trained lawyer would touch this with a barge pole.

Is there any merit to mentioning the lack of required necessary information as mentioned by user Incandescent a few comments ago?
If we had nothing else the argument would be worth pursuing, however as far as I'm aware we've never actually won a tribunal case on that point, so I think that in the circumstances it would just distract from the main argument.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #26 on: »
Very reassuring on both counts, thank you. I agree it's probably best not to dilute the core issue here.

evidence beyond reasonable doubt

This makes a lot of sense. I suppose using the badge of the recently deceased would be an open/shut case whereas using the badge for its intended purpose, perhaps not.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2024, 11:31:56 pm by Turbulent-Pack-447 »

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #27 on: »
I missed the bit as to who is the blue badge holder, you, your wife/your son?

It might also be worth the various disability discrimination acts that could be brought into play.
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #28 on: »
I missed the bit as to who is the blue badge holder, you, your wife/your son?

It might also be worth the various disability discrimination acts that could be brought into play.
@roythebus see the thread title  :)

I think the Equality Act might come into it down the line when we pursue a formal complaint, but that will come into play after the PCN has been cancelled.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #29 on: »
Those laws can be very handy at times. :)  As the holder of a blue badge myself I find it useful most of the time even though I've got no visible disability, there's a lot of folk out there in a similar situation. But yes, best leave that as "dry powder".
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.