Author Topic: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child  (Read 1755 times)

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PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
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Apologies in advance if this is quite wordy, I am autistic myself and I hope these are all relevant details and no waffle. England here.

(Edit: I have misplaced the PCN but I am trying to track it down. I have attached the rejection letter for the formal appeal a few posts down.)

A few weeks ago, my wife called me and said our autistic child was having an extremely tough morning and that she thought it was best to take him out of school and drop him off with me so I could take him to a sensory play session, and then take him back to school hopefully much calmer.

I parked my car in a disabled bay, displayed the blue badge and clock, and walked immediately over to a spot in front of a shop to await their arrival. I got a call from the badge issuing office saying I was seen leaving the car without the badge holder and to go and speak to the Civil Enforcement Officer by the car. I went and explained that I was there to collect the badge holder and that they were on their way. The Officer said that this is not acceptable as the holder has to be present for both parts of the journey. I was mortified and explained that I thought I could use the badge for picking up and dropping off. I called my wife, but she didn't answer so the warden issued me a ticket. He did not confiscate the badge.

The officer said to come and find him if I could get hold of her. She eventually called back and explained that she had been quickly cleaning feces from the bathroom wall that she had just discovered and was now collecting him to bring to me. I found the officer, who spoke to her and made a note of this.

He said I could stay in the space because I had been issued a ticket and couldn't be issued another one and, quite distressed, I said I would prefer to just move my car if I was using the badge incorrectly as he had stated and I didn't want to take up a space for somebody else. I spoke to my wife and we decided to collect him later and take him along to the later session instead as I was so distressed.

My informal appeal was declined on the grounds that the badge holder had to be in the vehicle on arrival. The PCN was described as "Parked in a designated disabled person's parking place without displaying a valid disabled person's badge in the prescribed manner."

I have since checked, and nothing in my booklet, the council website, citizens advice etc says that the holder must be present for the full journey. It is made clear in all resources that the badge can be used to collect someone or drop them off and there's no further elaboration on how long I'm allowed to wait. I presumed that I had the full 2 hours as per the road sign.

I want to progress to a formal appeal detailing this, but my wife is terrified we will get taken to court and struggle to prove our story and wants me to just pay the reduced fine while I still can. I am concerned that this is an admission of guilt and will lead to prosecution for abuse of the badge if I pay the fine.

I don't know what to do and if I get a criminal record I will lose my job. Please please please help.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2024, 08:25:38 am by Turbulent-Pack-447 »

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Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #1 on: »
Details of location and the authority photos (they should be on their website) and front and back of the ticket will all help.

Sometimes they contain fatal errors.

Do not pay it just yet, wait until you have a full range of comments so you can make a more informed decision (I understand you may just want to get rid of it).

I do not believe you did anything wrong, but cases just like yours are cropping up a bit.

As an example I see no issue with my son using my badge to collect me. In this case we happen to both be adults.

If this use is to be prohibited quite how I am supposed to get to the car when it is much more likely beyond the limit of my mobility.

To yours, the large print guidance states:-

------
Who can use the badge?

The badge is for your use and benefit only. It must only be displayed if you are travelling in the vehicle as a driver or passenger, or if someone is collecting you or dropping you off and needs to park at the place where you are being collected or dropped.
------

That seems to cover you. However, how long did the episode take ? It seems there may have been some delay.

If you parked, walked to the shop (how long) and then were waiting for your wife to bring him (how long) thats a bit different (but not necessarily misuse).
« Last Edit: March 19, 2024, 09:54:39 pm by slapdash »

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #2 on: »
Please post the PCN your challenge and the response in full so we can help.

This from the BB booklet

Who can use the badge?
The badge is for your use and benefit only. It must only be displayed if you are travelling in the vehicle as a driver or passenger, or if someone is collecting you or dropping you off and needs to park at the place where you are being collected or dropped.

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #3 on: »
Please post the documents requested by 'Pastmybest', they are essential to us giving full and good advice.

Do not be distressed or intimidated by your informal representations being rejected; councils reject virtually all of them, and also tell loads of tosh, even plain lies when doing so, because they know most people then cough-up, not knowing the law in any detail.

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #4 on: »
Please post the PCN your challenge and the response in full so we can help.

I can't believe this but I can't find the PCN now anywhere. I thought it was in my glove compartment but it is not, I'm worried I stuffed it somewhere in distress and it got thrown away. Has this ruined my chances? Can I get a duplicate? I have the rejection letter which has the PCN number, photos and some relevant information though if that would be enough? I will keep looking for the ticket

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #5 on: »
Post what you have.  We can work on it, but I think they are bluffing their way now, as your use of the BB would seem to have been completely legal.
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Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #6 on: »
Post what you have.  We can work on it, but I think they are bluffing their way now, as your use of the BB would seem to have been completely legal.

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Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #7 on: »
However, how long did the episode take ? It seems there may have been some delay.

If you parked, walked to the shop (how long) and then were waiting for your wife to bring him (how long) thats a bit different (but not necessarily misuse).

They called me within a couple of minutes of parking, maybe 4 minutes, I had barely arrived and didn't even have time to do any shopping if I wanted to. The "shop" is a good meeting place because it's right there by the high street where I parked and you can pull up easily and we could do the change over safely. Our house is basically next door to the school so it was easiest for her to get him and bring him to me. I assumed they were nearby but it turned out she was going to get him and leave but got held up slightly because of this toilet stuff. She explained to the CEO over the phone that she just had to clean up something gross. With everything going on with toilet and this ticket we decided to take him to a later sensory session instead. Even this worries me because I wonder if I should have stayed and insisted she bring him so it was more clear what we were doing, but the CEO told me that anything other than the badge holder being present in the car on arrival was an offense so I thought I was done for either way and didn't want to be commiting an offense by parking there anymore.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2024, 12:04:21 am by Turbulent-Pack-447 »

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote
but the CEO told me that anything other than the badge holder being present in the car on arrival was an offense
Totally and utterly, wrong. Wrong, WRONG !!!!
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Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #9 on: »
Totally and utterly, wrong. Wrong, WRONG !!!!

That's what has since really upset me, you'll see on the Informal Appeal denial letter that they make the same point with some very confusing wording. I think his exact words on the day when I said "But I thought it was okay to use a badge if you're picking someone up?" were "No the badge holder has got to be present on both legs of the journey"

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #10 on: »
Your original plan was to meet your wife and child, who you expected to be there as arranged. Go  back to your car with your son and accompany him to sensory centre.

During the course of that events transpired to derail those plans. These particular things had to be dealt with immediately. You dealt with the fallout of those as the CEO was making things even more difficult.

The fact you could have made different arrangements is not relevant.

You were entitled to use the badge. You weren't parking up, going to do things for yourself and then meeting them later. 

I assume the V5c is in your name and has the correct address. A quick check would be prudent to avoid the possibility of the notice to owner going to the wrong address.

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #11 on: »
Totally and utterly, wrong. Wrong, WRONG !!!!

That's what has since really upset me, you'll see on the Informal Appeal denial letter that they make the same point with some very confusing wording. I think his exact words on the day when I said "But I thought it was okay to use a badge if you're picking someone up?" were "No the badge holder has got to be present on both legs of the journey"
I just had a brief read through ad there seems to be a repeated theme. Despite assurances from several members you continue to worry about what the council and the CEO said; why?

Meanwhile, we are still waiting to see the PCN (in full) and the text of your initial challenge.

You can reassure your wife that such matters are not dealt with in 'court'. IF the council are foolish enough to reject a formal challenge then the matter goes to adjudication by the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, which does not incur any additional costs.
Hearings are relatively informal and can be conducted over the telephone if you wish.
I suspect it won't get that far  anyway.

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #12 on: »
I just had a brief read through ad there seems to be a repeated theme. Despite assurances from several members you continue to worry about what the council and the CEO said; why?

I am sorry if I sound ungrateful, I am autistic myself and trivial things like this can upset me immensely and I can get quite fixated. I am so thankful for everyone's advice and solidarity and I feel much more reassured.

I have misplaced the PCN itself stupidly, I am continuing to search for it but it's not in the car where I thought it was. I was so distressed and rattled at the time. I have shared the informal rejection letter which is currently all I have.

I have never been in this kind of situation before. I am worried that they will report me to the badge issuing office for misuse of the badge and this would lead to a fraud criminal record and cost me my job. My biggest concern is that if I make the wrong move at this stage (ie. "just pay the fine") it'll condemn me in the future as it will look like I have admitted to using the badge for my own benefit.

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #13 on: »
Stop worrying i will deal with this for you just post the NTO when you get it

Re: PCN for using Blue Badge to collect autistic child
« Reply #14 on: »
Stop worrying i will deal with this for you just post the NTO when you get it

Thank you so much. I will do.
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