3. PCN for entering into a pedestrian zone
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PCN for entering into a pedestrian zone
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Hello Experts,

I have received this PCN for entering into a pedestrian zone, I was not aware that it is a pedestrian zone and car has been driven almost every day for last few days, suspecting I might receive more of this. Please could someone advise? Thnaks

PCN attached below.


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Re: PCN for entering into a pedestrian zone
« Reply #1 on: »
The video doesn't help:



Have you received any more? Any reason why you missed the signs?

I'll ask for the traffic order as well.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN for entering into a pedestrian zone
« Reply #2 on: »
Thanks for the reply,  I have not received any more so far but I am very sure, I will receive more. I used to drive on that road when there were no restrictions and kept driving same way unaware that there could be new restrictions.  Even the people living on that road has made this mistake couple of times.
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Re: PCN for entering into a pedestrian zone
« Reply #3 on: »
Hi, I have received another PCN, number is QT07860070 dated 07/07/2023 for the same contravention at 15.29 on 28/06/2023.
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Re: PCN for entering into a pedestrian zone
« Reply #4 on: »
You can ask the Council what PCNs are outstanding against your reg.mark.
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Re: PCN for entering into a pedestrian zone
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: John U.K. on July 11, 2023, 01:12:54 pm
You can ask the Council what PCNs are outstanding against your reg.mark.
I suggest you do that and give us a list of all the PCN numbers, we can then look at doing a combined representation against all of them.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN for entering into a pedestrian zone
« Reply #6 on: »
Hi,

I have spoken to Kingston council parking team. They have advised me of following outstanding PCNs related to the same contravention. They told me there were 4 more PCNs which has been cancelled by them. The advisor told me to appeal mentioning that I was unaware of the restrictions, appeal separately and mention all other PCNs in that appeal and hopefully it will be cancelled. Please could you advise me of the draft representation.

PCN No:      Contravention date  Date of Notice
QT07890118   30/06               06/07
QT07860070   28/06               10/07
QT07907902   06/07               12/07

Thanks
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Re: PCN for entering into a pedestrian zone
« Reply #7 on: »
Send this as a letter in the post, make sure to get proof of postage:

Dear Royal Borough of Kingston upon Thames,

I make representations against penalty charge notices QT07890118, QT07860070 and QT07907902. I was unaware of the restriction and while I appreciate this is no excuse, in the totality of the circumstances I would ask that you consider excersiving your discretion not to enforce. As I will be abiding by the restriction in future, enforcement of these penalty charges would not serve any traffic management purpose.

Should you be unwilling to cancel all the penalty charges, I would ask that you at least cancel two of them and allow me to pay the third one at the 50% discounted rate.

Yours faithfully,
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN for entering into a pedestrian zone
« Reply #8 on: »
Thanks for sending the draft representation. Do I need to include the declaration in this letter as mentioned on the PCN second page about representations. I suppose it has to be done via post being a combined representation and can not be done online?
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Re: PCN for entering into a pedestrian zone
« Reply #9 on: »
Yes it's a good idea to type out the declaration stated on the form, but don't use the actual forms.

You can't do a combined representation online so it has to be done by post. I won't go into loads of detail but there's a very good reason to do it this way (normally I'd always say to do everything online, but a case with multiple PCNs like this is an exception).
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN for entering into a pedestrian zone
« Reply #10 on: »
Traffic orders:

The Kingston upon Thames (Prescribed Routes) (No. 6) Traffic Order 2013
The Kingston upon Thames (Prescribed Routes) (Amendment No. 44) Order 2023

You could measure the distance from the party wall of numbers 1 and 3, I don't think the sign is 15 metres from there. If the sign is in the wrong position, that's a breach of the regulations.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN for entering into a pedestrian zone
« Reply #11 on: »
Thanks, I have made the representation by post and kept a proof of postage.
Quote from: cp8759 on July 17, 2023, 10:57:18 pm
Yes it's a good idea to type out the declaration stated on the form, but don't use the actual forms.

You can't do a combined representation online so it has to be done by post. I won't go into loads of detail but there's a very good reason to do it this way (normally I'd always say to do everything online, but a case with multiple PCNs like this is an exception).
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Re: PCN for entering into a pedestrian zone
« Reply #12 on: »
Sure, will do.
Quote from: cp8759 on July 20, 2023, 08:32:37 pm
Traffic orders:

The Kingston upon Thames (Prescribed Routes) (No. 6) Traffic Order 2013
The Kingston upon Thames (Prescribed Routes) (Amendment No. 44) Order 2023

You could measure the distance from the party wall of numbers 1 and 3, I don't think the sign is 15 metres from there. If the sign is in the wrong position, that's a breach of the regulations.
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Re: PCN for entering into a pedestrian zone
« Reply #13 on: »
Hi,

I have received reply for my representation and they have rejected for all 3 PCNs.

Attached is the rejection letter.

Please could you advise next action on this?

Thanks



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Re: PCN for entering into a pedestrian zone
« Reply #14 on: »
There are grounds to carry on, as far as I can see there are two possible points:

1) The traffic order creates a restriction "from a point 15.1 metres east of the party wall of Nos. 1 and 3 Portland Road", which would be towards the end of the school zig-zags:



However the signs are actually far close to the property boundary than they should be, at less than 9 metres:



General direction 2 of Schedule 8 to the TSRGD provides that:

2.  An upright sign mentioned in paragraph 1 must be placed as near as practicable to the point the restriction or prohibition begins or ends.

It's not a sure thing, but this has won in a couple of prior cases, such as:
Stanmore Quality Surfacing Ltd v City of London (2230256434, 12 July 2023)
Michael Dempsey v London Borough of Enfield (2230348292, 26 August 2023)

The other argument is that by saying this:



they have unlawfully fettered their discretion. They've been asked to consider the circumstances as a whole and they're telling us that they have refused to do so.

Lastly the grounds stated on the council website do not match the legislation, not by a million miles:



This has seen some recent success:

James Bettell v London Borough of Barnet (2180498755, 16 January 2019), allowed
Tracey Allan v London Borough of Barnet (2180502295, 20 February 2019), refused
Sonya Karafistan v London Borough of Barnet (2230228494, 25 May 2023), allowed
Martin Howley v London Borough of Ealing (2230274232, 29 June 2023), allowed

None of these grounds are guaranteed to succeed, but you only need to win on one point. You therefore need to decide whether you want to carry on with the full amount in play, or pay now and forfeit the right to appeal.

If you want to carry on, I'm happy to represent you.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2023, 12:11:49 am by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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