3. PCN for 52M
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PCN for 52M
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I hired a car for 3 days in Nov 23, I drove on a road that had a restriction for 2 days in a row following google maps and I did not notice the sign. Following my return of the vehicle I was informed by the hire company I have penalties i.e 4 penalties back and forth on 2 days, of which I paid 2 immediately as I had the PCN number and the transfer of liability was not processed. However the other 2 penalties council informed me there is a request for transfer of liability and I should wait, and I will still get the 14 days discount period.

I did not receive any letters till Jan 24 therefore I call the council request to see if there are any penalties in my name at which point they said they cant hep without the PCN which of course I didn't have at hand because of they never wrote to me. I now in feb received a letter demanding £195 as i didn't pay within the 28 days, so i called them today to inform i never received the first and that I cannot appeal online anymore, so what will be the best course of action.

I was put on hold for quiet sometime only for the guy to come back and say they will reduce it down to £130 each, when i requested to understand why not £65 i was told its because when there is a transfer of liability you don't get the discount which i contested and requested information on where I can see this written down, at which point I was informed I cannot appeal on the call, but the reason why they cant the charge to £65 as I have committed the same offence more than once. "you have been doing the same thing again and again".

I understand I should have paid attention to the road signs and not follow google maps blindly therefore I don't mind paying the charges but to pay £195 when I didn't receive the PCN, and to then not be given the chance to pay 50% less as I committed the same offence more than once, is something I don't understand. I was told I now need to wait to receive the letter from court and appeal this to the court who will also charge me additional fees.


Since I received these PCN I have never driven through that restricted area.

Please can someone help me understand if it is a rule that the council can decide to not offer 50% discount if you have committed the same offence more than once.
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Re: PCN for 52M
« Reply #1 on: »
Wrong forum, a Mod' will move it to the council forum for you.
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There are motorists who have been scammed and those who are yet to be scammed!
Re: PCN for 52M
« Reply #2 on: »
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Re: PCN for 52M
« Reply #3 on: »
@DIP181394 please show us the paperwork as advised by taffer87.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN for 52M
« Reply #4 on: »
Hi all

Apologies for my delayed response.

Attached is the letter i received from the council and this was the only letter i received from them.

« Last Edit: May 05, 2024, 09:21:24 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: PCN for 52M
« Reply #5 on: »
@DIP181394 I've reposted your letter with your address redacted, as you really shouldn't publish that online.

As it's a transfer of liability case we can likely get it cancelled altogether (no need to pay the £65 charge if you don't have to), but you must:

1) Stop contacting the council,
2) stop phoning the council,
3) stop trusting anything the council says.

The main issue is most people who work for the council have no idea how any of this works, so even if they're genuinely trying to help you they will almost always give you the wrong information (and the information they have given you so far is in fact wrong).

Urgent next steps: The amount due is at £204 which means the PCN has already been registered with the traffic enforcement centre, this means that unless you get a move on and do something about it you could end up with enforcement agents coming to collect the debt. You must act now to stop this from happening.

Call the traffic enforcement centre first thing on Tuesday morning on 0300 123 1059 and ask if you are still able to file an "in-time" statutory declaration (do not ask anything else, they cannot help you with any other query whatsoever). If they say yes, ask them how long you have left. By my calculation you might have a few days left but you're likely on the absolute limit of how much time is allowed.

If TEC confirms you are still able to make a statutory declaration "in-time" (rather than an out of time one) please read the guide here https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/ but jump to the part that starts with "As soon as the debt has been registered, use form PE3..." and follow the steps described in the guide.

If TEC tells you you need to make an out-of-time application, let us know ASAP and we'll have to help you draft an out-of-time application, which unfortunately is a lot more involved.

If TEC tells you that Tuesday is your final day to make a declaration, it's really on you to pull out all the stops to get this done, even if it means going to your local high-street solicitor and paying a £10 fee to get the form witnessed. Better this than paying £500 to a bailiff.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN for 52M
« Reply #6 on: »
Hey,

Thanks

I have received the form in the post and tomorrow is my last day.

I am not sure what I should write in the sections that says your reasons.

It’s a tiny box I will not be able to fit everything in the box.

Looking forward to hearing from you.
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Re: PCN for 52M
« Reply #7 on: »
"In time" declarations don't need reasons.
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Re: PCN for 52M
« Reply #8 on: »
@DIP181394 as the guide tells you the "reasons" box must be left blank.

If tomorrow is the last day, have you got an appointment at the county court to get the form sworn? If not, walk into any high-street solicitors and ask if there's anyone available to witness it for you, the £5 / £10 fee is well worth the hassle it will save you.

You must email the form to tec@justice.gov.uk before 4 pm.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN for 52M
« Reply #9 on: »
Hey
Yes I have a local solicitor who can help sign the form they usually have a walk in service so I should be able to get a time tomorrow.
Thank you
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Re: PCN for 52M
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: DIP181394 on May 06, 2024, 07:32:09 am
Hey,

Thanks

I have received the form in the post and tomorrow is my last day.
We haven't seen any "form"? Why did you think the 7th was your last day?

Did you get the application completed and e-mailed?

What did TEC say meanwhile?
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Re: PCN for 52M
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: Neil B on May 08, 2024, 01:25:21 am
Quote from: DIP181394 on May 06, 2024, 07:32:09 am
Hey,

Thanks

I have received the form in the post and tomorrow is my last day.
We haven't seen any "form"? Why did you think the 7th was your last day?

Did you get the application completed and e-mailed?

What did TEC say meanwhile?
These were not difficult questions.
You cannot afford to mess about with the process at this late stage.
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Re: PCN for 52M
« Reply #12 on: »
@DIP181394 any update?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN for 52M
« Reply #13 on: »
I have received the attached letter.

Should I contact the council or just wait for them to come back.

Their lines are usually really busy and its so hard to get hold of them.

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Re: PCN for 52M
« Reply #14 on: »
@cp8759 pls can you help me confirm as per the previously attached response from county court if I should contact the council or just wait for them to write to me?

Thanks
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  3. PCN for 52M