Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hi all,

Back in 2021 I started to receive PCN letters for a vehicle I did not recognize (at first) in total there where 5 separate fines, 4 for parking and 1 for a bus lane, total I think all combine are sitting around the £600 mark. Knowing that I have never driven this car or had the car registered in my name, I contacted the council back when I got my first letter to explain this to them, they where not interested and just palmed me off and told me to pay or it would go up, etc.

Annoyed I ignored them and the letters.

Fast forward to August 2024 I started to receive letters from a debt collection agency threating bank arrestment, I thought now I really better start digging as to what was going on.

My first port of call was the DVLA, I wrote to them for proof that I had never been the registered keeper in question, over the phone they confirmed this right away but I had to wait for them to reply in writing so I had written evidence to show the council that I have never been the registered keeper of the vehicle in question. I also contacted the debt collection company who said they could put a hold for a month on any proceedings (bank arrestment etc).

I scanned the letter I got from the DVLA and send the council an email showing this, this was about a month ago, they got back to me yesterday.

What they are saying is that they contacted the DVLA who then passed them over to an insurance company who then passed them over to a car salvage auction company (the car in question was an insurance write off and sold via a car auction site). This car auction site had a record of my self purchasing the car, in all honesty I thought even this was wrong, but it turns out I did indeed bid on a vehicle (on someone else's behalf) and won it, this is going back 5 years or so ago a few months before the first PCN's.

I also transpires the person who was driving the car never bothered to apply for the V5 in their name (which us why I think the DVLA pointed the council to wards to insurance company and in turn ended up getting my name off the back of the sale of the vehicle).

My question is this, am I liable to pay for these fines? I was and never have been the registered keeper, I was not driving the car and never have driven the car. The person driving the car I also presume would have had insurance tying him to that vehicle at the time of the contraventions? I seems like the council are using a bill of sale for the vehicle to pin these fines on to me.

Unsure where I go from here, I have purposely not included street names, pcn codes and other details as to not shoot my self in the foot, even though I truly have nothing to hide, I've had fines before and always pay council PCNs if I know I am in the wrong, but in this case I was not the owner or the registered keeper of the vehicle.

Any help at all at this stage is much apricate, also I'm in Scotland as I am sure you know so unsure how the laws work a bit differently up here to down south etc.

-Aton

I scanned the letter I got from the DVLA and send the council an email showing this, this was about a month ago, they got back to me yesterday.

We need to see this pl, a precis won't suffice, I'm afraid.

With respect, you've already shot yourself in the foot by ignoring the PCNs, so nothing's to be gained by redacting info except your personal data.

Also, pl tell us when the auction took place. You say you bought the car 'on someone else's behalf' and that you were never the registered keeper. So how did you dispose of the vehicle to somebody else, you have a record of selling the car and financial records showing the purchase and subsequent sale etc?

 

Thanks.


'they got back to me yesterday.', they being the council. We need to see this pl.

You bought the vehicle because your name was apparently recorded as being the purchaser. This is the council's starting point because whoever you passed it to, presumably a friend, did not register themselves as keeper.

As I understand the law(Road Traffic Act 1991):

2)For the purposes of this Part of this Act, the owner of a vehicle shall be taken to be the person by whom the vehicle is kept.

(3)In determining, for the purposes of this Part of this Act, who was the owner of a vehicle at any time, it shall be presumed that the owner was the person in whose name the vehicle was at that time registered under [F8the M8Vehicles Excise and Registration Act 1994].

How can you prove this was not you?

Having said this, on what basis could the council presume that you were the person who kept the vehicle.

Perhaps their letter would explain?

OP, with respect you are not making this easy.

Their 'previous letter' set out their reasoning..

..which was?

We need to see everything you have.

Date of sale; this is surely part of what you've redacted from the SCB sales receipt;
Date of contravention: again, an objective fact.

Your assertions as regards the person to whom you disposed of the vehicle.(disposed in its legal sense: noun. Selling, transferring or giving away something. The plaintiff disposed of some of their assets.) because 'buying on someone else's behalf' is not in accordance with the (admittedly current) SCB Ts and Cs.

https://auctions.nsaa.co.uk/TermsConditions

See s.8.

The seller's liability in respect of each Item you purchase ends upon the transfer to you of such right and title, as the seller has, and you are on risk for all risks from the moment of the concluded Contract of Sale for the purchase of each Item. You must register with the DVLA each vehicle you purchase from the seller or complete a statutory off-road notification. All fixed penalty notices and/or other legal demands, fees and charges relating to each vehicle you purchase will be your sole responsibility from the Date of Sale of that vehicle.

Thanks again Anderson give me a day or 2 to get back to you on this with more details I just have not had the time at the moment in the middle of a house move, I really appreciate your replies thus far.

Stamfordman I am unsure, what would knowing or not knowing vrm affect me? Thanks

Just an update, the debt collection company who I spoke with one the phone went back to the council and they have dropped all the fines. It’s looks like when push comes to shove you NEED to the be the registered keeper to be liable for any fines etc. it begs the question why the council went to these lengths, the registered keeper was never me, they had no case the letter from the DVLA cemented this point.

I still have not recived any official correspondence from the council and I don’t know if I will it was the debt recovery agency who told me the fines had been quashed, and correctly so! It pays you to stick buy your guns if your are in the right!

Essentially, the council have acted illegally as the law is quite clear on where responsibility for PCNs lies.