3. PCN - Driving in a Bus Gate
« previous next »
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: PCN - Driving in a Bus Gate  (Read 95 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

montyjohn

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
PCN - Driving in a Bus Gate
« on: March 10, 2025, 04:30:16 pm »
I have received a PCN from Royal Borough of Kingston upon Thames for contravention 33c using a route restricted to certain vehicles (buses and cycles only).

I was driving in the area at the time recorded, and the photos are clear so the contravention did take place, I just didn't notice I had driven through the bus gate.

PCN
https://imgur.com/a/GSoZhrB

This is the bus lane in question (streetview):

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3691035,-0.296539,3a,61.9y,95.13h,69.53t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sgdnmAeP9OkytoPFD3NI0cQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D20.474092275219917%26panoid%3DgdnmAeP9OkytoPFD3NI0cQ%26yaw%3D95.13189674228494!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDMwNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

(Ariel image)

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3690742,-0.2963653,68a,35y,95.13h/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDMwNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Address: Cox Lane (between the junction with oakcroft road and sanger avenue), Chessington.

I would normally just put this down to an honest mistake and pay up, however:

It's a fairly large fine: £130 reduced to £65.
The bus Lane is only 13m long (could de minimis be relevant?).
There is no benefit whatsoever for a car to drive in the bus lane as there is a give way at the end of it (see streetview link). Taking the correct turn for cars would be to my benefit.
It took place at 11pm where there were no cars or busses around. Evident in the photos.
The bus lane only exists to allow large busses through, but prevent large trucks getting through. Cars are not the reason for the existence of this bus gate.

My payment deadline is 13th March, and thought I best get some alternative views before I just begrudgingly pay.
Many thanks
« Last Edit: March 10, 2025, 04:51:33 pm by montyjohn »
Logged

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook

Hippocrates

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3024
  • Karma: +36/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: The Cosmos.
    • View Profile
Re: PCN - Driving in a Bus Lane / Gate
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2025, 04:34:22 pm »
I know it well. It depends on which adjudicator you get I am afraid.  However, it is worth a representation. I was at the Tribunal some months ago and Mr Teper heard the case, allowed it and changed his mind. mrmustard helped a friend of a friend of mine some years ago and was lucky to have the adjudicator he did because the guy had 9 tickets! I wrote the reps. and he did the hearing during my period of self-imposed exile.   2160454429

We must see the PCN to help so I can check their website.

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Let's be clear: it is a bus gate not a a bus lane.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2025, 04:39:38 pm by Hippocrates »
Logged
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

montyjohn

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: PCN - Driving in a Bus Gate
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2025, 04:52:40 pm »
Thanks, I've added a link to the PCN images in the original post, but also available here:
https://imgur.com/a/GSoZhrB
Logged

Hippocrates

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3024
  • Karma: +36/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: The Cosmos.
    • View Profile
Re: PCN - Driving in a Bus Gate
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2025, 10:56:59 pm »
I have looked at the video and their website now is ok.

I suggest:

I make these formal representations against PCN      VRM           (in pdf)

1. The video does not prove the alleged contravention as no upright signage allegedly passed is present.

2. The TSM Chapter 3 has now recommended that the legend on the road is no longer necessary.

3.  The weather was inclement so as to make any signage unless illuminated to be not fit for purpose, which is the case in terms of my perspective at the said time.

In light of the above, please cancel

Logged
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

montyjohn

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: PCN - Driving in a Bus Gate
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2025, 08:52:32 am »
Thanks for your suggestions.

I do think the weather may have contributed to this. Making road markings harder to see against bright lights.

I'm a little uncomfortable about the signage point as I can see it in streetview, and the post is visible in the video so I can only assume it is there. I assume the intention here is to just put the onus on the council to prove it.
Logged

Hippocrates

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3024
  • Karma: +36/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: The Cosmos.
    • View Profile
Re: PCN - Driving in a Bus Gate
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2025, 09:30:40 am »
Forget streetview: they must provide the evidence.
Logged
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

Grant Urismo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: PCN - Driving in a Bus Gate
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2025, 10:37:01 am »
Streetview proves it was there on the day the streetview car drove past, the council needs to prove it was there on the day you drove past.
Logged
Pages: [1]
« previous next »
  3. PCN - Driving in a Bus Gate