Author Topic: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)  (Read 705 times)

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PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
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Hi,
Hoping the experts in this forum can help me please.

I was visiting my very elderly in - laws at their Council flat which is on a housing estate in Battersea, Wandsworth.  They gave me a housing parking permit which was given to them by the Wandsworth Council for anyone visiting and needing to park the car, I displayed it in my car and parked on Austin road.  It was the first time I had used this Housing parking permit!

Came back to the car and noticed I was issued a PCN – Contravention 12 (see attached). What I didn’t realise was that the Housing parking permit I displayed in my car could only be used in a designated parking area behind the block of flats (there are 6-7 parking spots for visitors I believe).  Genuinely didn’t realise that the housing permit could not be used if parked on Austin Road ( i.e. in front of the block of flats where they live). 

Below are the PCN Images.





NOW, REGARDING THE ISSUED PCN:
It so happened that, I had parked my car right in front of a parking sign which was partly defaced.  This can be seen if you zoom in and look closely at the photographic evidence that the traffic warden has posted on Wandsworth site (there are two pictures where the defaced sign can be partially seen with the car in view).  https://parking.wandsworth.gov.uk/pcn/

The traffic warden has rather cunningly tried to avoid taking the picture so that the defaced sign is clearly visible.  In fact the traffic warden posted another individual photograph of a normal parking sign but this sign has been taken on the adjoining road around the corner (Astle Street). NOT where I had parked my car!

Also, on a separate note there is a number on the pole of the displayed parking sign (which the traffic warden took) which is 010 but where I parked my car the number on that pole is 008. ( can be partly seen in the council photographic evidence)

On the day I did take a picture with my car near the defaced traffic sign, but my number plate is not visible. Also have a picture with the defaced parking sign I took. (have attached both the pictures).






Are there any grounds to challenge this PCN – especially given that my number plate is not visible near the defaced sign?

Hoping someone can help.  Thanks.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2025, 12:05:39 am by cp8759 »

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Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
« Reply #1 on: »
Please post the permit you were given if possible. Or tell us what code is on it. If it has a code on it, then as far as I know, it can only be used in bays with the sign marked with the same code.

Here is what Wandsworh has on its website about estate parking.
https://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/parking/parking-permits/estates-parking/where-you-can-park-on-an-estate/

Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
« Reply #2 on: »

Thanks for your reply.  Here is a snap of the Housing permit.




The traffic warden also has it in his photographic evidence on the Wandsworth Council PCN website.

I now understand that I should not have parked there.  But what i'm trying to ascertain is whether I can challenge the PCN given that the signage was defaced ?  Meaning is the PCN that wandsworth issued valid as the signage was defaced? 

Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
« Reply #3 on: »
It's a common mistake we see to confuse estate parking with on-street parking - it's certainly worth a go given the defaced sign.

But I've had a look on Maps and Austin Road does look on-street and not like an estate road.*

*Well on second look the roads there do seem to be among estates.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2025, 11:06:16 pm by stamfordman »

Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
« Reply #4 on: »
Thank you for your reply. 

If I were to go ahead and challenge based on the defaced signage. Is there any traffic law/regulation as such I can quote to say that parking signs should be maintained by the Council so that signage is clear or something to that effect. 

Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
« Reply #5 on: »
Yes, all the roads around have estates. 

Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
« Reply #6 on: »

The parking for residents is around the block on Kennard street apparently.  I have just checked and those bays have a sign saying  permit Holders BP.




Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
« Reply #7 on: »
@ Incandescent - Can I ask please- does the parking permit specifically have to have the exact code displayed on the Parking sign.

The Housing permit (Photograph I posted) Just says battersea Park....does there have to be a code on the Housing  parking permit as you mentioned?

Thanks.

 

Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
« Reply #8 on: »
@ Incandescent - Can I ask please- does the parking permit specifically have to have the exact code displayed on the Parking sign.

The Housing permit (Photograph I posted) Just says battersea Park....does there have to be a code on the Housing  parking permit as you mentioned?

Thanks.
I would expect the visitor permit to have the same code as if the resident you visited had been granted a permit, but I don't know the detail of how Wandsworth operate these visitor permits. Certainly, I would not expect a visitor permit to apply to any of the codes as that would give a visitor better parking options than the residents.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2025, 06:54:31 pm by Incandescent »

Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
« Reply #9 on: »
OP, look at the reverse of the permit and you should see its usage terms and conditions.

On the subject of signs, look at the authority's photo evidence. You'll see a traffic sign which is clear..

..but GSV shows it's clearly not yours or even the next one, but the next.

Why, I wonder?

Can your relatives take photos of these signs pl.

Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
« Reply #10 on: »

Image of the conditions of the permit:



I accept that the car was parked in the wrong permit holder zone. 

However trying to see if it can be appealed on the basis of the defaced sign.

Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
« Reply #11 on: »
OP, look at the reverse of the permit and you should see its usage terms and conditions.

On the subject of signs, look at the authority's photo evidence. You'll see a traffic sign which is clear..

..but GSV shows it's clearly not yours or even the next one, but the next.

Why, I wonder?

Can your relatives take photos of these signs pl.


===========================================

@ H C Anderson - yes, The authority's evidence photo - is taken from ( Astle street).  I think because the sign where I parked was defaced the traffic warden never put a picture of the defaced sign, he went to the other end of road (Astle street) and took a picture of that sign which was nowhere near my car.  This was why I was hoping there was someway to appeal it.  Will have to visit on the weekend and take more photos of signs myself.

My thinking is that the parking ticket should correspond to the traffic sign that indicates the parking restriction.  As the sign is defaced/not clear - Could I not appeal on the basis that the sign is not in accordance with the Traffic Regulation Order and so the PCN is invalid? Also the authority's evidence of the sign is from (Astle Street), while the road stated on my PCN is Austin Road. The traffic warden intentionally did not take a photograph of the sign near my car as it was defaced.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2025, 08:58:14 am by poorthing »

Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
« Reply #12 on: »
My thinking is that the parking ticket should correspond to the traffic sign that indicates the parking restriction.  As the sign is defaced/not clear - Could I not appeal on the basis that the sign is not in accordance with the Traffic Regulation Order and so the PCN is invalid? Also the authority's evidence of the sign is from (Astle Street), while the road stated on my PCN is Austin Road. The traffic warden intentionally did not take a photograph of the sign near my car as it was defaced.

Of course you can challenge on the grounds of the above, but get your evidential ducks in a row first. Normal practice - but not law- for authorities is to re-offer the discount if reps are made within 14 days of service, in your case 11 May. Wandsworth do not include this in their PCN, but none the less may well do.

Each case turns on its own facts. Your bay was shared use.

However, the contravention description does not reflect this.

IMO, the description renders the PCN unenforceable, but because of the thread title and first post we've been steered into a direction of your choice!

So, to complete the picture pl obtain photos of all traffic signs in the parking place - there are 3 according to GSV- and where the elusive payment machines are located(on your side of the road).

Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
« Reply #13 on: »
Hi,

I returned and clicked the photos requested of the signs adjacent to the one where I got a ticket.

I got the ticket at pole numbered 008 (as seen in previous uploaded picture).  The pole adjacent on Austin road on my side( numbered pole 009) the sign is also defaced. So both the signs are defaced on the side I parked on.  See attached photo link



However, on the opposite side of the road, there is a sign which is clear.  See attached:



The evidence the traffic warden provided is of the sign on the adjacent road  ( Astle road - pole 010)

There is a parking meter on the road about 10 meters from where I had parked, opposite the Battersea Fields Practice GP surgery.

Please let me know if there is any basis to appeal.  Thanks.



Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
« Reply #14 on: »
The 009 pic suggests a pay bay so not that helpful for a permit but does support defacement.

I'd be inclined to go on with this - at least you'll probably end up with another rejection reoffering the discount.