Author Topic: PCN Code 27 'Parked adjacent to a dropped footway' MCC  (Read 783 times)

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Deb2000

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PCN Code 27 'Parked adjacent to a dropped footway' MCC
« on: October 22, 2023, 10:29:33 am »

Good morning

Really hope someone can help please?

Yesterday, I received a PCN (Manchester City Council) for the above contravention (attached).

When there has been available space (generally space for 4 cars here), I've parked here for 3 years.

I've never had a PCN for parking here and wish to challenge it if I can?  Have I just been lucky, or do I have a chance at overturning this PCN?

Please feel free to ask for further information to clarify position.  I've also attached photos for consideration.

Many thanks in advance for any guidance/assistance.

Have a lovely Sunday.

Deb

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Incandescent

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Re: PCN Code 27 'Parked adjacent to a dropped footway' MCC
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2023, 10:46:07 am »
You have not attached the PCN as far as I can see.

Please read this and update your thread
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Have you always parked part-way across the dropped kerb over the 3 years of parking ?

DancingDad

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Re: PCN Code 27 'Parked adjacent to a dropped footway' MCC
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2023, 11:08:48 am »
And a Google Streetview location link pls.

At the moment can only say yes there is a dropped kerb and yes the vehicle is adjacent to it.
But context is important in these cases, the purpose of the dropped kerb etc

Deb2000

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Re: PCN Code 27 'Parked adjacent to a dropped footway' MCC
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2023, 11:38:55 am »
Hi

Thanks for replying.  I've attached PCN now.  Sadly, as the files are too big it wouldn't let me attach all.

Hope this helps.

For context, yes I have parked here for the last 3 years when I go to the football once a fortnight.  Manchester City Council are in the process of making alot of the streets around the Etihad and the new Coop Arena, residential.  However, this isn't the case as yet.

There are traffic lights here too and when people are leaving the game and walking that way, they use the road and not the dropped kerb.


Deb2000

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Re: PCN Code 27 'Parked adjacent to a dropped footway' MCC
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2023, 11:48:07 am »
https://maps.app.goo.gl/PHMeN1RCwEYt2xWB8

<iframe src="https://www.google.com/maps/embed?pb=!4v1697971512566!6m8!1m7!1sUWnYf7PMZONah6vem9tXlQ!2m2!1d53.49203145296008!2d-2.206478836425439!3f202.22198!4f0!5f0.7820865974627469" width="600" height="450" style="border:0;" allowfullscreen="" loading="lazy" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade"></iframe>

Sorry, I'm trying to copy exact street view and not sure if it's worked?

DancingDad

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Deb2000

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Re: PCN Code 27 'Parked adjacent to a dropped footway' MCC
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2023, 11:54:30 am »
Thank you.  Yes, that's it exactly.

cp8759

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Re: PCN Code 27 'Parked adjacent to a dropped footway' MCC
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2023, 06:18:11 pm »
Sadly, as the files are too big it wouldn't let me attach all.
It does if you actually read the instruction here: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/ (but you have to actually read it properly, skimming over it and then not following the instructions doesn't count).

Here are the council photos:

















If you'd parked parallel to the road against the bank of earth, you would have been OK. Unfortunately however your car is parked adjacent to a kerb that has quite clearly been lowered to make it easier for pedestrians to cross the carriageway.

One possible argument that could be made is that the area where you were parked is a vehicle crossover, such that the footpath is not interrupted at all so the lowered keeb cannot be there for the purpose of allowing pedestrians to cross the carriageway at all, but that is only just about arguable and I don't think it would succeed at the tribunal.

In the circumstances there are only two possible strategies:

1) Make a plea for discretion, or
2) Try and trip the council up into failing to consider your representations.

Strategy 1 involves appealing to the authority's discretionary power not to enforce, which is a power only the council has (the tribunal cannot allow an appeal on this basis).

Strategy 2 involves giving the council a link to a video or image you want them to consider, and setting it up view a click / view counter so we can prove whether they're looked at your supporting evidence. If they fail to look at it, you can then win on a failure to consider.

The best approach might be to combine both approaches (provide evidence of mitigation by means of a link), but first we need to know if you have any meaningful mitigation to put forwards.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

DancingDad

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Re: PCN Code 27 'Parked adjacent to a dropped footway' MCC
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2023, 12:06:05 am »
All I got is Legitimate Expectation.
IE parking has always been tolerated here during match days and not enforced.

But if a vehicle was a couple of foot further back, it would not be adjacent so would not be enforced.--- and there seems room so how to prove parked up in this position and not been penalised?

Deb2000

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Re: PCN Code 27 'Parked adjacent to a dropped footway' MCC
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2023, 07:21:57 am »
Thank you Cp8795 and Dancing Dad  :)

I'm unsure now which approach to take? 

If you were me would you -

a) Make a plea for discretion based on the legitimate expectation, and if failing that,
b) Adopt Strategy 2 with a link and counter and cross fingers for a 'failed to consider' contest?

Thank you so much for helping me with this.  It's truly appreciated. 

Deb

cp8759

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Re: PCN Code 27 'Parked adjacent to a dropped footway' MCC
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2023, 09:14:33 pm »
I'd combined strategies 1 & 2, belt and braces.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

H C Andersen

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Re: PCN Code 27 'Parked adjacent to a dropped footway' MCC
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2023, 08:20:39 am »
OP, you're only at the PCN stage and therefore the 'failure to consider' 'ambush'(my take, not a legal term) won't apply IMO.

If you include a link which you can later prove wasn't opened then at this point you would be at the NTO stage. And then what? Make reps against the NTO on these grounds, and possibly others but:

Don't include the link i.e. simply rely upon their failure at the PCN stage? Or
Include the link?

If 1, then at appeal IMO an adjudicator would consider this to be an ambush.
If 2, then the authority are more than likely to view it.

In short, if this tactic (which IMO unless the link is fresh evidence sourced by the OP - not CEO photos - and set within a relevant context and legitimate grounds has no merit other than simply being a trap) is followed then surely it can only be included once at the NTO stage.

OP, what evidence other than your claim do you have that you have parked here on numerous occasions recently. (the council would know whether you or anyone else has been issued with PCNs simply by searching using location and date)?

What track record does this approach have at adjudication?

Deb2000

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Re: PCN Code 27 'Parked adjacent to a dropped footway' MCC
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2023, 10:30:18 am »
Sadly I don't have any hard evidence other than my word.  Up to 4 cars (and sometimes 5) have parked here for many years on match days.  I don't know how I could prove that, other than maybe ask people on the numerous Man City FB pages I'm on?

On most occasions, I've not managed to park there because it's already been full.  People tend to get there very early, park up here and then totter off to Asda/the Stadium etc.

I'm sure if a 'search' for PCNs on that spot was conducted, there would be no record of any being issued.  But of course, I'd then need photographic evidence of vehicles previously parked there without penalty.  How would I go about that?  Does anyone know?

Thanks again for everyone's support with this.   

H C Andersen

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Re: PCN Code 27 'Parked adjacent to a dropped footway' MCC
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2023, 11:08:40 am »

I'm sure if a 'search' for PCNs on that spot was conducted, there would be no record of any being issued.  But of course, I'd then need photographic evidence of vehicles previously parked there without penalty.  How would I go about that?  Does anyone know?


Not really.

Scenarios:
1. They have records of PCNs having been issued going back months/years, the record shows PCNs having been issued continuously and yours isn't one of them;
2. Their record of PCNs starts only a few games apg/this was the first time.

Remember, legitimate expectation is not you having been caught for the first time, it's a genuine belief based upon your personal experience that the council had made a decision to not enforce this location. 2 speaks for itself, but how you would deal with 1 depends upon specifics and IMO you'd need to know what their records show first. 

You could also write separately to the highways and waste departments. Highways - has the council stopped-up Coleshill because you've noticed that the entrance is totally obstructed by mounds of spoil. Waste - just report the mounds of spoil. It's a public highway and the council has a duty to keep it open. If there's an official/unofficial decision to stop up the road then this could possibly work to your advantage.
 

Deb2000

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Re: PCN Code 27 'Parked adjacent to a dropped footway' MCC
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2023, 10:01:27 am »
H C Anderson, I think I've found my approach now.  Sometimes it's only when people give you a different view, it makes sense.  The fact that cars have parked there for years, without penalty, why would anyone assume it was an offence?

I'll let you all know how I get on. 

Fingers crossed.

Deb