3. PCN Code 21 Parked in a suspended bay - vehicle removed
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PCN Code 21 Parked in a suspended bay - vehicle removed
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Hi All

I parked my vehicle on Sunday night on Virginia Road in this bay https://maps.app.goo.gl/PLU1V2vTWxqaArDW9 only to find my vehicle had been removed on Tuesday AM. It appears the bays were suspended. But there was no signage on that pole where I am parked.

I have a still image from my dashcam which can be viewed here https://ibb.co/GWVH2cR

I noticed on the dashcam footage that the pole at the other end of the street had a yellow signplate indicating suspended parking, and wondering if that is enough for them?

Here is the the ticket I recieved https://ibb.co/3M1XwC1 and image from CEO when removing my vehicle https://ibb.co/q5QkJTy All the other images are of my tyre and the paint on my door. It appears they erected a signage, and placed it underneath the signplate.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2024, 07:14:38 pm by Driver86 »
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Re: PCN Code 21 Parked in a suspended bay - vehicle removed
« Reply #1 on: »
So here is the sign you say had no suspension sign on it which was nearest to your car: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/tcG9QHHMEs71qxNF9
A motorist is entitled to rely on the sign nearest his car, and not to have to visit every sign for the bay. So with no sign, the suspension has not been adequately signed and you should submit reps on this basis. If they prove obdurate, you would have a very good case at adjudication, indeed would probably get costs as well. Councils are have legal obligations just like motorists, so don't fold and pay if they reoffer the discount, it's just easy money for them.
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Re: PCN Code 21 Parked in a suspended bay - vehicle removed
« Reply #2 on: »
Ok that's good to know. Remember that my vehicle was removed so I had to pay the cowboys £260 to get my car back.
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Re: PCN Code 21 Parked in a suspended bay - vehicle removed
« Reply #3 on: »
You've already paid all there is to pay, so it is a total no-brainer to take them all the way to London Tribunals, and you should win because they have failed to sign the suspension properly.  First you have to submit representations to the council, then when they refuse them, you register an appeal to London Tribunals, as there are no additional costs in doing so.
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Re: PCN Code 21 Parked in a suspended bay - vehicle removed
« Reply #4 on: »
The head-on photo you've posted shows your car parked almost adjacent to the first (only?) traffic sign in the bay(from this direction) on which is a clear, three-winged 'Notice Parking Suspended' sign.

On the face of it your account is at odds with this evidence.

Pl reinstate your VRM so that we can view all the council's photos pl and see the details of the suspension.

Were you displaying a resident's permit as otherwise required?
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Re: PCN Code 21 Parked in a suspended bay - vehicle removed
« Reply #5 on: »
Hi H C Anderson - Which image are you referring to?

Dashcam? Image taken just as I prepare to enter parking-bay on 21st July. This is the only direction you can see the signpost since dashcams are looking straight on (not turned to the right).
CEO Photo? It is of my vehicle at the point of removal on 23rd July. The Yellow signpost must have been erected that morning.

I have a resident's permit for the area.

Quote from: H C Andersen on July 26, 2024, 09:55:20 am
The head-on photo you've posted shows your car parked almost adjacent to the first (only?) traffic sign in the bay(from this direction) on which is a clear, three-winged 'Notice Parking Suspended' sign.

On the face of it your account is at odds with this evidence.

Pl reinstate your VRM so that we can view all the council's photos pl and see the details of the suspension.

Were you displaying a resident's permit as otherwise required?
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Re: PCN Code 21 Parked in a suspended bay - vehicle removed
« Reply #6 on: »
Please have a read of the READ THIS FIRST - ** sticky post at the top of the forum.

You've redacted the VRM when you were clearly instructed not to. So please reinstate in the posted image of the PCN or put in your next post. I for one want to check the CEO photos.
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Re: PCN Code 21 Parked in a suspended bay - vehicle removed
« Reply #7 on: »
I contacted Tower Hamlets council to get an update on this and they told me that this is now closed as they sent me "notice of rejection" the day after my appeal apparently - but I never received it. One of their staff told me that it might be something I need to take up with the Post Office?! - surely they are having a laugh!

There will be no charge certificate as I paid to have the car back.

I've asked them to email me the copy of the letter which I am now having to wait on. Do I have any rights left?
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Re: PCN Code 21 Parked in a suspended bay - vehicle removed
« Reply #8 on: »
Good.

Adjudication here you come.


https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/parking-penalty-charge-notice-enforcement-process

Your position has improved because there are prospective procedural c**k-ups a-plenty which the authority could make.

Anyway, for now you wait for the Order for Recovery:

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/parking-penalty-charge-notice-enforcement-process

But keep your finger on the pulse - if one letter sent via the Royal Mail(Post Office!!) can go missing, then so could an OfR.
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Re: PCN Code 21 Parked in a suspended bay - vehicle removed
« Reply #9 on: »
But there is no order of recovery, its closed they say as I have paid £265 to release my car, and then as far as they are concerned I did not respond to notice of rejection. This is robbery.

What can do to have this re-opened? Can I submit to tribunal even at this stage without their "blessing" once I get that illusive NoR letter?
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Re: PCN Code 21 Parked in a suspended bay - vehicle removed
« Reply #10 on: »
and here we have a perfect example of why EDW and Bogsy were right about removals and the Tribunal/adjudcators were wrong. You pay up front, make a formal rep and hear nothing back. Under the current process the appellant cannot get the case set back because no Order for Recovery with a witness statement form will ever be served because the appellant was forced to pay the PCN upfront. The Council deviated from the TMA 2004. What is the point of serving a TMA 2004 PCN if payment and appeal follow s.101A RTRA 1984 and s.101B RTRA 1984? If a regulation 9 PCN says these are your rights but these rights are not actually your rights, surely the PCN must be invalid? The correct section to apply was s.102 RTA 1984 just as Schedule 9 TMA 2004 indicates. In which case it's worth noting that s.102(4) does not extend to civil enforcement authorities and therefore everything the PCN says in relation to payment and appeal remains applicable. In my opinion this is no coincidence.

A perfect one for CP8759 to get his teeth into.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2024, 02:23:34 am by Phantomcrusader »
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Re: PCN Code 21 Parked in a suspended bay - vehicle removed
« Reply #11 on: »
Thanks. Agree that it is at odds with the PCN to follow that process, and I I would have thought they would need to write to the registered owner? but to get the info within 1 working day is unlikely to have registered owners details (since it ain't me!).

I wonder if they are relying on this flimsy document they attached to the PCN and gave to me when I paid their charge... https://ibb.co/8M7b8CY
https://ibb.co/QfLrxt4

I'll keep chasing that NoR letter through this week and then I will try submitting reps to London Tribunals explaining that this was not received previously.
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Re: PCN Code 21 Parked in a suspended bay - vehicle removed
« Reply #12 on: »


Your second link gives a blank sheet of paper?

Did you use their form?

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Re: PCN Code 21 Parked in a suspended bay - vehicle removed
« Reply #13 on: »
It is blank, thats how they've given it. No I didnt use their form.

I have received their notice of rejection by email today I've attached here. https://ibb.co/QfzNqjj

Two points:

1. They appear to be saying the dashcam image and their CEO image are of two different poles. It's not, it is the same pole.

2. They say my car was not parked there when they erected the signage on 18th July, where as my argument is that when I did park my car there on 21st July, the signage was not there as can be seen in the dash cam footage.

Any thoughts on contacting tribunal to see if they will accept a late appeal due to not receiving the letter?
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Re: PCN Code 21 Parked in a suspended bay - vehicle removed
« Reply #14 on: »
Adjudicators can accept late appeals, but you will probably have to explain the circumstances.
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