Author Topic: PCN, code 12S Gilbert St. Bailiff stage  (Read 518 times)

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PCN, code 12S Gilbert St. Bailiff stage
« on: »
Hi everyone, I'd really appreciate some advice. Ultimately, I'm trying to work out whether to throw in the towel and pay a fine (which I believe is unfair) or is there a way to fight it?

September 2023 I had a letter saying I'd been fined for 'parking without clearly displaying a permit...' I didn't actually have anything on my windscreen to pick up, but online they have photos of it stuck on my car, and have taken a photo of my car with a permit for zone I, and the sign saying zone I. I've parked there many times without issue. I appealed and expected that to be the end. I didn't hear until months later when bailiffs were involved. I phoned the council who said they denied the appeal ages ago; I didn't receive a letter, and they won't send me a copy. They read out the reasoning: '...visitors permits are issued so that residents of properties located within residence permit parking scheme areas may have visitors with cars. As the name implies, only for used when visiting the resident permit holder. *The location where permit is registered to* is a considerable walking distance from the location where you had parked, and is wholly reasonable to have parked closer.'
Of note, the place where it's registered to is approx 200m away, and doesn't have any parking around it.

I appealed with the TEC ('late witness statement), saying I hadn't received any letters - and that appeal was recently refused while I was away, so the bailiffs are visiting again demanding money. It was over 2 weeks ago so that verdict cannot be appealed.

The council, TEC, traffic penalty tribunal, all say they don't have any suggestions.

Is there any way to get someone with common sense to look at the original reason for the fine and be able to overturn this?

Thanks for reading.

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Re: PCN, code 12S Gilbert St. Bailiff stage
« Reply #1 on: »
Sorry, but we're totally in the dark until we see some documents.so please post-up what you've got especially the TEC letter of refusal.

This case has all the hallmarks of a V5 with an out-of-date address. So was the address correct when the contravention occurred and have you moved address since 2023 ? A pity you submitted your Witness Statement without coming on here. P

Re: PCN, code 12S Gilbert St. Bailiff stage
« Reply #2 on: »
Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.

no change in address, I honestly have no explanation for not receiving the rejection notice
I believed that they would easily see the error in making the fine

the summary suggests that the permit is only valid for that street, which 1. doesn't have parking on it, and 2. the permit is for a zone which their own website dictates the area of, so I see that as incorrect
I couldn't attach any images, so I've put the summaries on the drive:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1RBJSlvxmD-ez9SAH0YEaRJppkX7qAIcK?usp=sharing

Re: PCN, code 12S Gilbert St. Bailiff stage
« Reply #3 on: »
So is your address on the letter below completely correct?
Have you also checked the V5C registration doc?

What's odd is you got the notice to owner and made representations but then you didn't receive:

- Rejection letter
- Charge certificate
- Order for recovery.

Is this right?
Then you got an enforcement notice from the bailiff?

« Last Edit: August 11, 2024, 11:22:18 pm by stamfordman »

Re: PCN, code 12S Gilbert St. Bailiff stage
« Reply #4 on: »
This is probably not what you want to hear.

The merits or otherwise of the original PCN are irrelevant at this stage, What does matter is how much does the bailiff want? I hope it's still £105 + £75 = £180.

If you don't pay it then the bailiff will attempt to visit you at the address on the warrant and will clamp your car if he can find it. The visit will cost an extra £235 on top of the £180.

You've left it too late to apply for an N244 review before a judge and even if you weren't late the fee is £119 for a hearing on the papers, an option that's not recommended. This fee won't be refunded even if your review were successful. And in any event what can you say to justify being late? A hearing in person, which is recommended, would cost £303 but again is not refundable.

The judge would only be able to consider if you have good reason for being late with your Witness Statement and not the original contravention.

So the original PCN may be unjust but you don't have any option but to pay the bailiff or possibly arrange a payment plan. I'd get on the case first thing Monday morning, your objective being to avoid the looming £235 charge

Be aware that you cannot pay the Council and ignore the bailiff charges.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2024, 03:19:50 am by Enceladus »

Re: PCN, code 12S Gilbert St. Bailiff stage
« Reply #5 on: »
I didn't receive a rejection notice, I only received something at the end of march which led me to ring them back on the date they mentioned.
I was given advice by the council about what papers to send to the TEC, which was actually incorrect and sent back to me with advice for more forms to fill. This delayed the TEC process, during which the bailiff cost went up to £424. This is the cost they are currently asking for. According to the maths you gave me, it should be £415 though?

Re: PCN, code 12S Gilbert St. Bailiff stage
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote
I only received something at the end of march which led me to ring them back on the date they mentioned.
What was this "something". Please post it here.

Re: PCN, code 12S Gilbert St. Bailiff stage
« Reply #7 on: »
Pl don't just give totals, you've got the breakdown so pl post

You also have the enforcement agent's notices which you should also post.

The next formal stage is that they immobilise your car, if they know or have reason to believe it's your property, or visit your house again to seize* property.

You have NO recourse to adjudication based upon what you've posted.

*- legal term. To prevent you disposing of goods with a view to them being removed and sold at auction at 50p in the pound, plus additional fees etc. 

Re: PCN, code 12S Gilbert St. Bailiff stage
« Reply #8 on: »
I didn't receive a rejection notice, I only received something at the end of march which led me to ring them back on the date they mentioned.
I was given advice by the council about what papers to send to the TEC, which was actually incorrect and sent back to me with advice for more forms to fill. This delayed the TEC process, during which the bailiff cost went up to £424. This is the cost they are currently asking for. According to the maths you gave me, it should be £415 though?

My apologies I forgot to add the £9 TEC registration fee. So
£105 = Charge Cert
£9 = TEC registration
£75 = Bailiff Compliance Stage Fee
£235 = Bailiff Enforcement Stage Fee
£424 = Total

Re: PCN, code 12S Gilbert St. Bailiff stage
« Reply #9 on: »
I just contacted the bailiffs and they confirmed the same as your maths. 114 + 75 compliance fee + 235 enforcement stage

I think I have come to the acceptance stage that I need to pay regardless of the fact I believe none of this ever should have happened.

While it feels like no-one in the council has cared about the fine being incorrect, it's a silver lining to find that there are people on here who are helping others out at times of need, when otherwise losing faith in people. Thank you for reading and sharing your thoughts on my case.

Re: PCN, code 12S Gilbert St. Bailiff stage
« Reply #10 on: »
So is your address on the letter below completely correct?
Have you also checked the V5C registration doc?

What's odd is you got the notice to owner and made representations but then you didn't receive:

- Rejection letter
- Charge certificate
- Order for recovery.

Is this right?
Then you got an enforcement notice from the bailiff?

[img width=557.9947509765625 height=780]https://i.ibb.co/4KHz3xQ/image.png[/img]

Before you pay up please answer the questions above?

Re: PCN, code 12S Gilbert St. Bailiff stage
« Reply #11 on: »
The address has not changed and is correct.
I didn't receive a rejection letter - otherwise I would have responded to it. I can't remember what it was in March that I received that led me to call that day - I thought it was the bailiffs threatening charges but their timeline suggests that they weren't involved at that point, so it's a bit confusing. I phoned the bailiffs who told me to speak to the council, who suggested I filled in forms for the TEC (which took multiple attempts because the advice wasn't quite correct, and because it was all done by mail)

Re: PCN, code 12S Gilbert St. Bailiff stage
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote
otherwise I would have responded to it. I can't remember what it was in March that I received that led me to call that day
So you didn't keep it, then ? It's very hard to give advice when OPs don't keep the documents they received.