3. PCN Buckinghamshire Council, 31j Entering and stopping in a box junction, Packhorse Road / Station Road Gerrards Cross.
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PCN Buckinghamshire Council, 31j Entering and stopping in a box junction, Packhorse Road / Station Road Gerrards Cross.
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Hello Everybody, im looking for some advice please. While at work it appears i may have pulled out of a junction turning left, and left my rear wheels in a box junction.

In my defence it was dark and raining and the box junction markings have mostly faded making them difficult to see.i dont have the actual pcn, just a scanned pdf as its issued through work.

My question is how faded do markings have to be in order to form a defence?
These are the images i was sent below





From the images sent i cant actually see the end of the box junction to know if i was in it or not. I visited the site yesterday and took the below images if they would help





PLease bear in mind that i am the van at the top in the PCN images, not the car at the bottom that is CLEARLY in the box junction, and it was dark at the time of the alleged offence.

Also, is it possible that the car below has triggered the contravention, but my number plate has been captured incorrectly?

Because this is all done via a fleet management company they (fleet management) have stated i need to reply within 5 days so any prompt replies would be very welcome, and i appreciate it is a shorter notice that you wonderful people usually require.

Many thanks
Kieran01234
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Re: PCN Buckinghamshire Council, 31j Entering and stopping in a box junction, Packhorse Road / Station Road Gerrards Cro
« Reply #1 on: »
The lease company are the owner holding the V5C Registration Certificate so are responsible in law for payment or appeals.  They get the PCN. You need to find out from them what the arrangements are for dealing with PCNs. A lot of firms just pay-up, then off-charge the money to the lessee, adding on an admin fee, naturally. 
At the moment, you cannot submit representations unless authorised by the lease company, OR they submit reps that they are a hire company and supply your name and address. They may well add on an admin fee for this too.
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Re: PCN Buckinghamshire Council, 31j Entering and stopping in a box junction, Packhorse Road / Station Road Gerrards Cro
« Reply #2 on: »
Hi, the fleet company have asked if I wish to appeal or pay the fine. If I agree to pay, the fleet company pay the fine and then are reimbursed from my company, and they in turn ask me to pay them back.
My main query is if the faded markings being unclear and being unable to see the end of the box junction constitute a defence and grounds to appeal the PCN.
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Re: PCN Buckinghamshire Council, 31j Entering and stopping in a box junction, Packhorse Road / Station Road Gerrards Cro
« Reply #3 on: »
Please post a GSV link to the location.
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Re: PCN Buckinghamshire Council, 31j Entering and stopping in a box junction, Packhorse Road / Station Road Gerrards Cro
« Reply #4 on: »
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5MgYRMKrhUwgna1G7?g_st=ac

It would seem the road markings have faded since this Street view was captured.
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Re: PCN Buckinghamshire Council, 31j Entering and stopping in a box junction, Packhorse Road / Station Road Gerrards Cro
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote
My main query is if the faded markings being unclear and being unable to see the end of the box junction constitute a defence and grounds to appeal the PCN.
They are certainly valid grounds, but you have to demonstrate that at the give-way line, you can't see whether the road is clear to the left. However, a motorist would normally be looking right to make sure there are no approacing vehicle, and also to have noticed the YBJ. You say the markings are not clear, but from your photo, I reckon an adjudicator could decide they are OK. Markings are not expected to be in pristine condition, just sufficient to convey the restriction.  Photos taken at night might assist you better. At the moment, I don't see a slam-dunk win, and as the council will inevitably reject your reps as they do in about 99% of cases, you's have to go to London Tribunals with the full PCN penalty in play.

HOwever, until you have authority to act for the lease company, OR a PCN in your name, you cannot submit anything.
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Re: PCN Buckinghamshire Council, 31j Entering and stopping in a box junction, Packhorse Road / Station Road Gerrards Cro
« Reply #6 on: »
Thanks for that, and yes the end line is far less visible on a rainy night, however the location is about 45 mins away from where I live, so fuel costs could equate to possibly a third of cost of the PCN (if I pay within 14 days).

Is there any possibility it could have been a false trigger and my number was captured for the very obvious violation from the car behind? Or did they just catch 2 birds with one stone?
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Re: PCN Buckinghamshire Council, 31j Entering and stopping in a box junction, Packhorse Road / Station Road Gerrards Cro
« Reply #7 on: »
would it not better to see the video?
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Re: PCN Buckinghamshire Council, 31j Entering and stopping in a box junction, Packhorse Road / Station Road Gerrards Cro
« Reply #8 on: »
I have asked but it is done through our fleet management company, so I don't have direct contact with the council, and the fleet company want my response within 5 days. I received the email on Friday so only have until wednesday under the agreement between them and my company. My response will be I need more time and at a minimum I need the video.
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Re: PCN Buckinghamshire Council, 31j Entering and stopping in a box junction, Packhorse Road / Station Road Gerrards Cro
« Reply #9 on: »
PCN Number and car reg. Give us these and we can look at it on-line if they have it on their website
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Re: PCN Buckinghamshire Council, 31j Entering and stopping in a box junction, Packhorse Road / Station Road Gerrards Cro
« Reply #10 on: »
I a tally don't have the PCN number at the yet. I have emailed the Fleet team for it and for the video so I will see what happens.
Thanks for now...
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Re: PCN Buckinghamshire Council, 31j Entering and stopping in a box junction, Packhorse Road / Station Road Gerrards Cro
« Reply #11 on: »
Hi Again,
I now have photos of a printout of a scanned pdf of the PCN- i hope they come out ok.
I have also seen the video, and it is fairly apparent i was in the box junction, however i would like your view on the damaged / faded box markings. From the video the end line of the box junction is basically missing and is most visible from the left side line nearest the kerb, which is also directly adjacent to the double yellow lines, which (i assume) is how i missed it

link to PCN below

[/url]




PCN number: AA10355777
Reg: FM65BKG
Webcode:

Many thanks for your input
Kieran01234
« Last Edit: January 24, 2025, 05:05:12 pm by John U.K. »
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Re: PCN Buckinghamshire Council, 31j Entering and stopping in a box junction, Packhorse Road / Station Road Gerrards Cro
« Reply #12 on: »
I've removed the Webcode as requested, also the page with the webcode which you need to re-instate with the webcode redacted. Someone else appears to have removed the photographs.
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  3. PCN Buckinghamshire Council, 31j Entering and stopping in a box junction, Packhorse Road / Station Road Gerrards Cross.