3. PCN - Birmingham Clean Air Zone
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Re: PCN - Birmingham Clean Air Zone
« Reply #15 on: »
The only thing I can think of re the Brum CAZ is that the signs do not reflect the Order that created the scheme. A lot of information is missing, in particular the payment arrangements, as you have pointed out. For me, all the signage for CAZs is useless. The test should be that a person living in the Shetland Islands driving to London to visit his aged mother should be able, from the signs alone, to determine what is required on him.

You have the absolute right in law to take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, but as you are aware, you have to risk the full £120 penalty. If you don't mind risking the extra £60, go ahead. The problem is that unlike the London Tribunals website, there is no on-line search on the TPT Statutory Register so arguments that win a case are hard to find.
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Re: PCN - Birmingham Clean Air Zone
« Reply #16 on: »
Quote from: slapdash on June 27, 2024, 02:28:27 pm
Only you can decide but the number of cases won at the TPT is fairly small.

The payment system etc is far from great, but it's the one we have.

It's a double or quits gamble, but the odds are nowhere near even.

Broadly, if the car is Euro 6 it's not chargeable. Also if the cars emissions are better than euro 6 (even in not manufactured to Euro 6) it's not chargeable.

The Bham database is not perfect, the latter category being troublesome.

I've just checked and my car is Euro 5, so it's subject to the clean air charge unfortunately.

I think I'm going to have to be a coward and pay the £60 discount, as Birmingham Council seem horrendous and will force me to pay £120 if I leave it drag on. >:(

Thanks to everyone who responded, I appreciate your time and help.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2024, 07:14:58 pm by N1j1nsky »
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Re: PCN - Birmingham Clean Air Zone
« Reply #17 on: »
Quote from: N1j1nsky on June 27, 2024, 07:11:52 pm
I've just checked and my car is Euro 5, so it's subject to the clean air charge unfortunately.

I was obviously unclear.

As a Euro 5 vehicle it is an "other vehicle". It is the Nox value that determines chargeable or not.

If the Nox level (which may be on the V5C and should be on the certificate of conformity) is less than 0.08g/km then it is not chargeable.

It is unlikely they are wrong. But they can be.

One example that springs to mind is some Audi A8s.
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Re: PCN - Birmingham Clean Air Zone
« Reply #18 on: »
Quote from: slapdash on June 27, 2024, 07:42:08 pm
Quote from: N1j1nsky on June 27, 2024, 07:11:52 pm
I've just checked and my car is Euro 5, so it's subject to the clean air charge unfortunately.

I was obviously unclear.

As a Euro 5 vehicle it is an "other vehicle". It is the Nox value that determines chargeable or not.

If the Nox level (which may be on the V5C and should be on the certificate of conformity) is less than 0.08g/km then it is not chargeable.

It is unlikely they are wrong. But they can be.

One example that springs to mind is some Audi A8s.

Sorry if I misunderstood.

Unfortunately, I can't find a certificate of conformity and I can't find anything about the Nox level in the owners handbook.

I joined a Facebook group this evening, campaigning against the Birmingham Clean Air Zone and some of the comments are horrifying. There is no way Birmingham Council should be allowed to get away with their actions.

It is with regret, I have had to pay the £60, but I have made sure I have messaged Birmingham Council first with the following:

"Dear Birmingham Council,

You have yet to reply to my previous message (I understand you are probably busy with thousands of appeals to read through).

Today is my last day before you increase my charge further and I have read lots of negative comments about you rejecting appeals and then demanding the £120 payment, even when people like myself appeal within the £60 14 day period.

Therefore, to avoid being stung with further increased charges, I am going to pay the £60 today - BUT I REQUEST A REFUND OF £52 IN THE NEAR FUTURE!!

As stated in my initial appeal, there was no way I could pay online at the time and I was completely unaware I had a 6 day deadline to pay the £8 charge. This information isn't stated on your signage, so your signage doesn't set out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner.

I feel totally conned, robbed and deceived at the moment. You've hidden information to catch myself and thousands of other people out with your inflated charges.

I hope you are a council who cares about us ordinary people and you will do the right thing in refunding me the £52 - otherwise I will have to take things further by making a complaint to the Local Government & Social Care Ombudsman.

I will look forward to your response."
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Re: PCN - Birmingham Clean Air Zone
« Reply #19 on: »
The LGO won't consider any complaints where there is a statutory right of appeal.

The only other point is that Birmingham last year were DNC'ing the majority of cases because they didn't have the resources to fight all appeals, but obviously appealing to the tribunal in the hope that they're overwhelmed with appeals would be a significant gamble.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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