3. PCN at double yellow line on Iris Avenue in Bexleyheath
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cesur

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PCN at double yellow line on Iris Avenue in Bexleyheath
« on: June 15, 2024, 11:18:32 pm »
Hello all,
My wife parked our car on double yellow lines during a school run for less than 5 minutes. We received a PCN on the windscreen.  I wanted to hear thoughts about how to fight against this PCN first.

PCN and evidence: https://photos.app.goo.gl/K7Mm2cYg6GR6n5K46

Location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/ge8kStL7mp1w4j5j8
« Last Edit: June 16, 2024, 10:00:47 pm by cp8759 »
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Incandescent

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Re: PCN at double yellow line on Iris Avenue in Bexleyheath
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2024, 01:16:09 am »
Quote
during a school run for less than 5 minutes.
Please give us a full narrative on what this involved. Boarding/alighting passengers is an exemption to the DYLs.
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cesur

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Re: PCN at double yellow line on Iris Avenue in Bexleyheath
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2024, 07:41:57 am »
She parked temporarily to drop off child to the school across the road and returned to move the car in 5 minutes.
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Incandescent

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Re: PCN at double yellow line on Iris Avenue in Bexleyheath
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2024, 10:11:02 am »
Quote from: cesur on June 16, 2024, 07:41:57 am
She parked temporarily to drop off child to the school across the road and returned to move the car in 5 minutes.
OK, fine, but what age is the child ?  This looks like an "assisted boarding" case where you have to accompany a child to the school, but it must be necessary. Do you have to make sure your child is received by somebody at the school ?
Other thing is - why park on the double-yellows when there seems a lot of unrestricted street near the school ?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fRDptVUemhwckGen7

All of this is to make sure your representations are bulletproof, if it gets to adjudication at London Tribunals.


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cp8759

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Re: PCN at double yellow line on Iris Avenue in Bexleyheath
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2024, 10:03:22 pm »
@cesur as it's a primary school on the other side of the road the likelihood is that the age of the child is low enough to qualify for assisted alighting, but please confirm the child's age and we'll draft something for you.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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cesur

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Re: PCN at double yellow line on Iris Avenue in Bexleyheath
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2024, 11:59:51 pm »
Quote from: cp8759 on June 16, 2024, 10:03:22 pm
@cesur as it's a primary school on the other side of the road the likelihood is that the age of the child is low enough to qualify for assisted alighting, but please confirm the child's age and we'll draft something for you.

Hi, the child is 7 years old.
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cesur

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Re: PCN at double yellow line on Iris Avenue in Bexleyheath
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2024, 12:04:06 am »
Quote from: Incandescent on June 16, 2024, 10:11:02 am
Quote from: cesur on June 16, 2024, 07:41:57 am
She parked temporarily to drop off child to the school across the road and returned to move the car in 5 minutes.
OK, fine, but what age is the child ?  This looks like an "assisted boarding" case where you have to accompany a child to the school, but it must be necessary. Do you have to make sure your child is received by somebody at the school ?
Other thing is - why park on the double-yellows when there seems a lot of unrestricted street near the school ?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fRDptVUemhwckGen7

All of this is to make sure your representations are bulletproof, if it gets to adjudication at London Tribunals.

Yes, we need to make sure the child is received by the school.
Yes, all unrestricted areas are full of parent cars. The wife probably feared daughter could be late to school if she parked further away on an unrestricted street.
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cp8759

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Re: PCN at double yellow line on Iris Avenue in Bexleyheath
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2024, 12:25:36 am »
@cesur here is a draft informal representation:

Dear London Borough of Bexley,

I challenge liability on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur. At the time in question my wife was dropping off our seven year old daughter to school, therefore the vehicle was not parked but was momentarily stopped so allow assisted alighting of a vulnerable road user.

As soon as our daughter was safely handed over to the school, my wife returned to the car and departed without delay.

As the restriction in question is a waiting restriction and not a stopping restriction, no contravention occurred and the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,


Send this via the council website and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page. The council will likely send you a fob-off rejection, but as long as you stick it out to the tribunal I don't see how you could lose, especially given the complete lack of any observation time.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Incandescent

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Re: PCN at double yellow line on Iris Avenue in Bexleyheath
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2024, 12:33:44 am »
OK, so you now need to submit an informal challenge to the PCN: -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear <council name> parking department

Re PCN <PCN Number> dated <date of PCN> - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours

The alleged contravention did not occur, because I parked in order to escort my 7 year old (son/daughter), to his/her school opposite where I parked.

I therefore request that the PCN be cancelled.

Yours faithfully

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is no need for any detailed description, because this is an informal challenge, so you will inevitable receive their usual Fob-Off letter. Post their response when you receive it. Others may suggest different reps on the same lines.

cp8759's draft is better, so use his.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2024, 12:35:38 am by Incandescent »
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cesur

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Re: PCN at double yellow line on Iris Avenue in Bexleyheath
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2024, 12:53:33 pm »
Quote from: cp8759 on June 17, 2024, 12:25:36 am
@cesur here is a draft informal representation:

Dear London Borough of Bexley,

I challenge liability on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur. At the time in question my wife was dropping off our seven year old daughter to school, therefore the vehicle was not parked but was momentarily stopped so allow assisted alighting of a vulnerable road user.

As soon as our daughter was safely handed over to the school, my wife returned to the car and departed without delay.

As the restriction in question is a waiting restriction and not a stopping restriction, no contravention occurred and the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,


Send this via the council website and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page. The council will likely send you a fob-off rejection, but as long as you stick it out to the tribunal I don't see how you could lose, especially given the complete lack of any observation time.

Thanks. Portal appeal information page doesn't open, keeps redirecting. Once this is sorted I will appeal. Sent an email to council  about the issue.
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cp8759

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Re: PCN at double yellow line on Iris Avenue in Bexleyheath
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2024, 01:05:15 am »
Quote from: cesur on June 17, 2024, 12:53:33 pm
Thanks. Portal appeal information page doesn't open, keeps redirecting. Once this is sorted I will appeal. Sent an email to council  about the issue.
@cesur try https://pcn.bexley.gov.uk/TicketDetails.aspx
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

cesur

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Re: PCN at double yellow line on Iris Avenue in Bexleyheath
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2024, 09:49:42 am »
Quote from: cp8759 on June 18, 2024, 01:05:15 am
Quote from: cesur on June 17, 2024, 12:53:33 pm
Thanks. Portal appeal information page doesn't open, keeps redirecting. Once this is sorted I will appeal. Sent an email to council  about the issue.
@cesur try https://pcn.bexley.gov.uk/TicketDetails.aspx
The issue is after logging in with PCN details when I click the "Appeal Information" button, the browser keeps refreshing infinitely and nothing is displayed.
I contacted the council about the issue, and strangely the lady suggested no one complained about it in the last 2-3 days.
I am provided an email address to send an email and they put a note to the PCN to suggest my issue.
Email address: enquiries.bexley@bexleyparking.co.uk
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cp8759

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Re: PCN at double yellow line on Iris Avenue in Bexleyheath
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2024, 12:56:29 am »
I've dealt with a number of Bexley PCNs over the past day and I've not had any problems either. Please give us the PCN number and number plate and I'll have a look.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Fowler1981

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Re: PCN at double yellow line on Iris Avenue in Bexleyheath
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2024, 10:58:42 am »
Cesur, try using a different browser
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cesur

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Re: PCN at double yellow line on Iris Avenue in Bexleyheath
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2024, 12:05:49 pm »
Quote from: Fowler1981 on June 19, 2024, 10:58:42 am
Cesur, try using a different browser

Tried in Chrome and Edge.
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