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anonymous

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PCN Appealed - No reply received
« on: February 28, 2025, 07:21:01 pm »
Hi All,

A family member has approached me for advice this time. They received 2 tickets on the same day (different roads) for parking. They appealed those within the 14 days time frame but did not receive a reply to their appeals - instead they received the 2 respective NTO's which means that they lose the discounted rate.

Am I right in assuming that they need to appeal the NTO's and wait for the charge certificate so they can select the option that they never received the replies?

I have attached the PCN and NTO's if you guys wish to peruse them.








« Last Edit: February 28, 2025, 07:24:10 pm by anonymous »
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The other day, a parking enforcement officer stopped me and said “You can’t park here. It’s badge holders only.”

I looked them in the eye and said, “Good to know - I do have a bad shoulder.

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stamfordman

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Re: PCN Appealed - No reply received
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2025, 07:42:16 pm »
Missing a reply to an informal challenge is not grounds for anything other than saying you didn't get it in the formal challenge to the NTO, which if made in time (which you must do) means no charge certificate will be served unless you fail to pay or make reps (and then if they reject and you don't get that rejection you can go down the reset charge certificate/order for recovery process). 

What are the circumstances for each PCN - it's possible to beat these Redbridge parked without paying PCNs on grounds including the first hour is free.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2025, 08:50:50 pm by stamfordman »
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H C Andersen

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Re: PCN Appealed - No reply received
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2025, 08:29:52 pm »
instead they received the 2 respective NTO's which means that they lose the discounted rate.

[Wrong. Authorities often re-offer the discount after unsuccessful reps]
 
Am I right in assuming that they need to appeal the NTO's and wait for the charge certificate so they can select the option that they never received the replies?

No. See the Chief Adjudicator's Annual Report, page 5  Statutory Declarations and Witness Statements. https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Annual%20report%20202324.pdf
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anonymous

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Re: PCN Appealed - No reply received
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2025, 10:58:06 am »
Quote from: stamfordman on February 28, 2025, 07:42:16 pm
Missing a reply to an informal challenge is not grounds for anything other than saying you didn't get it in the formal challenge to the NTO, which if made in time (which you must do) means no charge certificate will be served unless you fail to pay or make reps (and then if they reject and you don't get that rejection you can go down the reset charge certificate/order for recovery process). 

What are the circumstances for each PCN - it's possible to beat these Redbridge parked without paying PCNs on grounds including the first hour is free.

So they claim that they normally park there on Khartoum Road with no problems. It seems that they have changed the signs recently and they did not notice. I think on the other one was a case of not having anywhere else to park (will have to confirm) as that is their road where they live.

I am not sure I understand what you mean by
Quote
Missing a reply to an informal challenge is not grounds for anything other than saying you didn't get it in the formal challenge to the NTO
. Is this to say that they can't bring that up at all as they have now lost out on the 50% discount for both pcns?
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The other day, a parking enforcement officer stopped me and said “You can’t park here. It’s badge holders only.”

I looked them in the eye and said, “Good to know - I do have a bad shoulder.

stamfordman

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Re: PCN Appealed - No reply received
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2025, 12:01:13 pm »
You can state in reps that no replies were received for informal challenges. They will reoffer the discounts in rejections.

If you can post the challenges we may be able to work up something extra.
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anonymous

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Re: PCN Appealed - No reply received
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2025, 01:43:03 pm »
Quote from: stamfordman on March 03, 2025, 12:01:13 pm
You can state in reps that no replies were received for informal challenges. They will reoffer the discounts in rejections.

If you can post the challenges we may be able to work up something extra.

Hello again Chaps. I have just received the challenges they have sent - I would say that challenging tickets is not their strong suit.


I would add for this one what they did not write is that although not a valid excuse, the street was full and there was no other place to park. The driver was suffering from a very painful case of gout and was having trouble walking.

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The other day, a parking enforcement officer stopped me and said “You can’t park here. It’s badge holders only.”

I looked them in the eye and said, “Good to know - I do have a bad shoulder.

anonymous

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Re: PCN Appealed - No reply received
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2025, 02:49:59 pm »
Shall I just go with no replies received then?
Quote from: stamfordman on March 03, 2025, 12:01:13 pm
You can state in reps that no replies were received for informal challenges. They will reoffer the discounts in rejections.

If you can post the challenges we may be able to work up something extra.
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The other day, a parking enforcement officer stopped me and said “You can’t park here. It’s badge holders only.”

I looked them in the eye and said, “Good to know - I do have a bad shoulder.

stamfordman

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Re: PCN Appealed - No reply received
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2025, 03:26:33 pm »
Neither of these make much sense.

The one in Roman Road shows the car at the end of the bay to the right but the parking signs pic taken by the CEO indicates a resident's bay to the right not a pay bay.




The other in Khartoum Road shows no parking sign but a RingGo info sign.



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anonymous

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Re: PCN Appealed - No reply received
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2025, 10:51:21 am »
Quote from: stamfordman on March 08, 2025, 03:26:33 pm
Neither of these make much sense.

The one in Roman Road shows the car at the end of the bay to the right but the parking signs pic taken by the CEO indicates a resident's bay to the right not a pay bay.



The other in Khartoum Road shows no parking sign but a RingGo info sign.



Yeah I think they were trying their luck. The first one was an obvious pay and display but they had no other spaces to park in, and the driver could not walk properly due to his injury. That would have probably been a better defence than what they wrote but they aren't the best when it comes to thinking straight.

They are more concerned about losing the discount as they did not receive a response to either of their challenges, if the tickets can be cancelled that's obviously a bonus.

EDITED to remove images
« Last Edit: March 11, 2025, 04:53:32 pm by anonymous »
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The other day, a parking enforcement officer stopped me and said “You can’t park here. It’s badge holders only.”

I looked them in the eye and said, “Good to know - I do have a bad shoulder.

anonymous

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Re: PCN Appealed - No reply received
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2025, 04:52:08 pm »
Quote from: stamfordman on March 08, 2025, 03:26:33 pm
Neither of these make much sense.

The one in Roman Road shows the car at the end of the bay to the right but the parking signs pic taken by the CEO indicates a resident's bay to the right not a pay bay.



The other in Khartoum Road shows no parking sign but a RingGo info sign.



Ok so  just re-read this. I think the one on Roman Road, the post seems to be to the right of the end of the bay, according to gsv anyway:
LINK ROMAN ROAD GSV

BUT I have found something interesting. In the same bay, but on the other end of it towards the main road, there is this sign. Seems to contradict the first sign as taken by the parking enforcement.



For Khartoum Road, the sign is blacked out, according to gsv anyway

LINK KHARTOUM ROAD GSV
« Last Edit: March 11, 2025, 04:59:10 pm by anonymous »
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The other day, a parking enforcement officer stopped me and said “You can’t park here. It’s badge holders only.”

I looked them in the eye and said, “Good to know - I do have a bad shoulder.

anonymous

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Re: PCN Appealed - No reply received
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2025, 08:39:16 pm »
I have just done some reconnaissance and I can confirm my findings.

So for clarity, they have the parking permit to park on Roman road. That long bay has 2 different posts, one that says pay and display only, and one that says permit holders or pay and display.

Khartoum road the signs have been blacked out.

Is it better for me to start these as desperate topics? I had originally started this topic as they did not receive any replies to their challenges, but now that I have had a look myself it seems that they should not have received these pcns in my opinion anyway.
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The other day, a parking enforcement officer stopped me and said “You can’t park here. It’s badge holders only.”

I looked them in the eye and said, “Good to know - I do have a bad shoulder.

anonymous

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Re: PCN Appealed - No reply received
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2025, 08:43:59 pm »
Just to add. I took a video to show the 2 contradicting posts with the bay. It doesn't seem to be split up

https://filebin.net/05787xc2mctcx2mh
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The other day, a parking enforcement officer stopped me and said “You can’t park here. It’s badge holders only.”

I looked them in the eye and said, “Good to know - I do have a bad shoulder.

Incandescent

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Re: PCN Appealed - No reply received
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2025, 12:11:38 am »
Quote from: anonymous on March 12, 2025, 08:43:59 pm
Just to add. I took a video to show the 2 contradicting posts with the bay. It doesn't seem to be split up

https://filebin.net/05787xc2mctcx2mh
Well, yes, it is a complete nonsense, and I would think is a slam-dunk appeal at London Tribunals. Normally when we have seen things like this, it is two bays with a bay divider consisting of a double-dashed line perpendicular to the kerb, and one sign for each bay. Many people miss things like this, but here there is no bay divider. So you should submit representations on the basis that you parked and went to the nearest sign that told you you could pay to park by phone, and that is what you did. Attach a photo of the sign.

Don't be miffed if they refuse your reps, because councils ruthlessly game the system to get the money in, so refuse almost all informal representations and re-offer the discount. They do this because they know most people, (>95%), then just cough-up believing the council are right, and also don't want to risk the full PCN penalty.
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anonymous

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Re: PCN Appealed - No reply received
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2025, 12:49:05 am »
Quote from: Incandescent on March 13, 2025, 12:11:38 am
Quote from: anonymous on March 12, 2025, 08:43:59 pm
Just to add. I took a video to show the 2 contradicting posts with the bay. It doesn't seem to be split up

https://filebin.net/05787xc2mctcx2mh
Well, yes, it is a complete nonsense, and I would think is a slam-dunk appeal at London Tribunals. Normally when we have seen things like this, it is two bays with a bay divider consisting of a double-dashed line perpendicular to the kerb, and one sign for each bay. Many people miss things like this, but here there is no bay divider. So you should submit representations on the basis that you parked and went to the nearest sign that told you you could pay to park by phone, and that is what you did. Attach a photo of the sign.

Don't be miffed if they refuse your reps, because councils ruthlessly game the system to get the money in, so refuse almost all informal representations and re-offer the discount. They do this because they know most people, (>95%), then just cough-up believing the council are right, and also don't want to risk the full PCN penalty.

Just to be clear the driver has a resident permit - they did not pay to park. The sign post that said residents was the furthest away albeit it was the same bay.
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The other day, a parking enforcement officer stopped me and said “You can’t park here. It’s badge holders only.”

I looked them in the eye and said, “Good to know - I do have a bad shoulder.

mrmustard

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Re: PCN Appealed - No reply received
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2025, 07:19:16 am »
Can I make the representations for Khartoum Rd please. The traffic warden is a cheat. They have not photographed the bay sign as it is blacked out. No contravention has occurred. Email mrmustard@zoho.com
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I help you pro bono (for free). I only ask that a donation is made to the North London Hospice if you can afford it and if you win. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless.
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