Author Topic: PCN 34j - Havering Council  (Read 2366 times)

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PCN 34j - Havering Council
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I received the below PCN from Havering Council, alleging to drive in a bus lane within the restricted period.



This is the road, you can see where the council's camera is (which is where bus lane starts) and where is the traffic light, I think it's ridiculous to issue PCN for that. The bus lane just ends close to the traffic light.


Video:


While the car was in the bus lane, it is just because I had to turn left from Straight Road to Farringdon Avenue (Romford) into another road. I was literally 2-3 seconds, but of course their camera doesn't show that I turned left.

PCN







Is it worth appealing and taking it all the way through adjudicator?



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Re: PCN 34j - Havering Council
« Reply #1 on: »
If Havering Council don't have Secretary of State approval for the CCTV camera, they cannot enforce bus lanes under the Act shown at the top of the PCN. Of course, since this issue came up there has been a mad rush by all London councils to get this approval, so they may have it by now.

Re: PCN 34j - Havering Council
« Reply #2 on: »
If Havering Council don't have Secretary of State approval for the CCTV camera, they cannot enforce bus lanes under the Act shown at the top of the PCN. Of course, since this issue came up there has been a mad rush by all London councils to get this approval, so they may have it by now.

Are you referring to Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, or London Local Authorities Act 1996?

Is there a way to check if a CCTV has such approval?

Re: PCN 34j - Havering Council
« Reply #3 on: »
Is it worth appealing and taking it all the way through adjudicator?
Yes, because the PCN is a clusterF*&k. Draft representation:


Dear London Borough of Havering,

I bring a collateral challenge against the penalty charge notice, because the penalty charge notice mis-states the statutory grounds on which representations may be made.

The PCN is issued under the London Local Authorities Act 1996, and under that Act the following grounds do not exist:
1) The vehicle had been permitted to remain at rest in the place in question by a person who was in control of the vehicle without the consent of the owner,
2) We are a hire firm and the vehicle was hired under a hiring agreement,
3) The penalty charge exceeded the amount due in the circumstances of the case.

Misstating the statutory grounds of appeal in this way is a material departure from the requirements of the statutory scheme, and it is liable to be prejudicial because a motorist could challenge a PCN in the mistaken belief that one of those inapplicable grounds can be established, the PCN is therefore misleading.

In light of this serious procedural error, a collateral challenge is made out and the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,


Let us know when you get the informal rejection, with a bit of luck they'll throw in a failure to consider as a bonus prize.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: PCN 34j - Havering Council
« Reply #4 on: »
Thank you for that.

So basically the challenge is based on their limited 'grounds' to appeal?

Was there a similar PCN here that was won successsfully with this approach?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2023, 08:45:25 am by Rudess »

Re: PCN 34j - Havering Council
« Reply #5 on: »
Just use cp's draft.  Yes.  Cases are won on the wrong wording.  By the way, they do have a new certificate.  The PCN is non-compliant - not limited grounds.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
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Re: PCN 34j - Havering Council
« Reply #6 on: »
If Havering Council don't have Secretary of State approval for the CCTV camera, they cannot enforce bus lanes under the Act shown at the top of the PCN. Of course, since this issue came up there has been a mad rush by all London councils to get this approval, so they may have it by now.

Are you referring to Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, or London Local Authorities Act 1996?

Is there a way to check if a CCTV has such approval?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=145245&pid=1725100&mode=threaded&start=#entry1725100

They have had a certificate for some months now.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Like Like x 1 View List

Re: PCN 34j - Havering Council
« Reply #7 on: »
Went to the URL that is given on the PCN to challenge. Interestingly, the informal challenge is only available is the PCN was left on the vehicle, while the formal challenge if the PCN was sent by post.

Should I use the first or second option?

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Re: PCN 34j - Havering Council
« Reply #8 on: »
One more thing, Havering share their policy for enforcing cancelling a PCN: https://www.havering.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/96/policy_for_enforcing_or_cancelling_a_pcn.pdf

I note this on page 38, interestingly my PCN wasn't issued based on TMA, but on Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 and London Local Authorities Act 1996.

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Re: PCN 34j - Havering Council
« Reply #9 on: »
Went to the URL that is given on the PCN to challenge. Interestingly, the informal challenge is only available is the PCN was left on the vehicle, while the formal challenge if the PCN was sent by post.

Should I use the first or second option?
If the first option works use that, if not use the second.

The policy you found is irrelevant as it doesn't apply to this sort of PCN, but we're not relying on the council policy anyway so it doesn't really matter.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: PCN 34j - Havering Council
« Reply #10 on: »
First option doesn't work so I clicked on second one, please note the representation reason are not exactly the same which is on the PCN:


What should I choose?

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Re: PCN 34j - Havering Council
« Reply #11 on: »
A, the contravention did not occur.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: PCN 34j - Havering Council
« Reply #12 on: »
not F?

Re: PCN 34j - Havering Council
« Reply #13 on: »
not F?
No, because there is no such thing under the London Local Authorities Act 1996.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: PCN 34j - Havering Council
« Reply #14 on: »
Thank you , submitting it now and will keep you updated when I heard back from them.