Author Topic: PCN 31J Entering and stopping in a box Junction when prohibited Southbury Rd/Eaton Rd ENFIELD  (Read 2521 times)

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Morning

Not sure if this area box Junction has a history as a cash cow milking for Enfield and worth challenging? The box junction Doesn't seem to serve a purpose other than to trap drivers in it.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/yVBcSmM361h3XRfP9

I'll try to post the video up once I find a way to redact the Reg numbers in it.  Weather conditions were poor, dark and rainy.

also not sure if the PCN wording is challengeable?

https://ibb.co/1fFFPvTW
« Last Edit: November 23, 2025, 12:00:06 pm by Bella54 »

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Your car reg number is on view whenever it is on the public highway, or even standing in your driveway, so it is pointless trying to redact it. Main thing to always redact is name and address.  We need to see the video to assess whether an appeal to London Tribunals is likely to succeed; the council will reject whatever you submit as that is part of London councils ruthless gaming of the system to get the money in.

Thank you.

Video link now added.


Video setting is private so we can't see it. Please update setting on YouTube.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2025, 02:03:42 pm by Bella54 »

Which is your car? The one that stops briefly before overtaking down the left lane? Or the one in the right lane which exits down the left lane at the end of the video?

The one in the right lane, trying to move into the left before the speed of the car in the left sped up and undertook.


Ok, have a couple of ideas, will respond more fully a bit later

There's also an error in the PCN which misstates the deadline after which the council may disregard your representations.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2025, 02:17:06 pm by MrChips »

Ok, have a couple of ideas, will respond more fully a bit later

There's also an error in the PCN which misstates the deadline after which the council may disregard your representations.

Thank you MrChips

Not sure how visible this box Junction is these days, could go back over to the area again if more photo's/videos will be required for reps.

So, the contravention is defined in the legislation as follows:

"Subject to sub-paragraphs (2), (3) and (4), the yellow criss-cross marking provided for at item 25 of the sign table in Part 6 conveys the prohibition that a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles."

From the video, it seems that you entered the box junction and started to aim towards the vacant left hand lane but stopped because you were (rightly) wary of the vehicle approaching from behind you. Once the path was safe you moved into your intended exit lane on the left.

You may therefore be able to construct an argument that your stop was caused by moving vehicles (i.e. the one coming past you on the left) and that but for this vehicle (which was not stationary) you would not have stopped as you did.

It's not a guaranteed win as an adjudicator might argue you should have waited before entering as it was clear you would have to stop as you did not have the right of way.

There's also the PCN error I pointed out earlier.  The London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 states:

"A penalty charge notice under this section must [my emphasis]—

(a)state—

(i)the grounds on which the council or, as the case may be, Transport for London believe that the penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;

(ii)the amount of the penalty charge which is payable;

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

(iv)that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion;

(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;

(vi)the amount of the increased charge;

(vii)the address to which payment of the penalty charge must be sent; and

(viii)that the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to this Act; and

(b)specify the form in which any such representations are to be made."

So, it is mandatory for the PCN to state that you may be entitled to make representations under the form specified in the Act (set out in paragraph 1 of Schedule 1).

Specifically, this section states (amongst other things):

"The enforcing authority may disregard any such representations which are received by them after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice in question was served."

Your PCN quotes the deadline after which your representations may be disregarded as "the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice of this Penalty Charge Notice".  This is different to the date of service of the Penalty Charge Notice which is assumed to be 2 business days after posting.

As it incorrectly states information which it must state in order to comply with the Act, it could be argued to be invalid.

+1.

There is another issue too as contained in the first link of my profile: missing mandatory information.

Re the reps. issue: Bromley cases. This particular one covers both issues actually. I referenced some other cases.

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/bromley-code-31j-entering-and-stopping-in-a-box-junction-when-prohibited-cray-av/msg95559/#msg95559

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wvCbvSjR_o4OeKonS24WbYL_yA7S41zz/view

So, a double whammy. I'll do a draft on this later if you like.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2025, 11:29:41 am by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Thank you both for your input and advice, its gracefully appreciated

The strongest point is the PCN. An adjudicator may regard the other car's conduct as mitigation only. I would lead with the PCN.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

+1.

There is another issue too as contained in the first link of my profile: missing mandatory information.

Re the reps. issue: Bromley cases. This particular one covers both issues actually. I referenced some other cases.

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/bromley-code-31j-entering-and-stopping-in-a-box-junction-when-prohibited-cray-av/msg95559/#msg95559

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wvCbvSjR_o4OeKonS24WbYL_yA7S41zz/view

So, a double whammy. I'll do a draft on this later if you like.

Yes Please.

what date will I need to send the Reps in by please?

No rush. I will do a draft later today for you.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r