Author Topic: PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit  (Read 327 times)

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PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit
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Hi,
Not sure if there is anything I can do about this. I was one minute off the CPZ timing 20.29, I parked there at 20.22 thinking restrictions ended at 18.30 on a Saturday evening. They do end at 18.30 on the other side of the road, my bad! Any ideas on whether there are any grounds for appeal? PCN here https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-oSpn2hCql1az_P7AoyWBbIKKa05Yu8W/view?usp=sharing

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Re: PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit
« Reply #1 on: »
How come you got a code 19 - do you have a recently expired permit of some sort. The u suffix is electronic payment.

London Councils guidance I recall is not to enforce within 2 minutes of beginning and end of restricted times so this is a point, plus there is no observation time on the PCN nor time stamps on their pics.






Re: PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit
« Reply #2 on: »
Quote
plus there is no observation time on the PCN nor time stamps on their pics.

The last six digits on the photos are the time-stamps, from 20:24:51  - 20:30: 31 (the last showing PCN affixed).  :(

Re: PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit
« Reply #3 on: »
OP, this thread is confusing.

Firstly, you were in a parking place with a clearly visible traffic on a lamp column immediately adjacent to your car. Yet you refer to a CPZ which only affects single yellow lines.

Secondly, as per stamfordman the contravention grounds refer to 'electronic payment' and imply some sort of shared bay...but it isn't.

Further and better particulars from you pl.

Re: PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit
« Reply #4 on: »
Sorry for any confusion - I know I made a mistake as the other side of the road is 18.30. I don't understand when you say CPZ (Controlled Parking Zone) is for single yellow lines only. My understanding of CPZ is there are parking restrictions in place which are governed by time. My mistake was to park on the wrong side of the road but I was tired and late. However I was wondering whether there was a representation I could make as it was 20.29 when the ticket was issued. If not I have to suck it up but to my mind its worth a try as there are so many experts on here

Re: PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit
« Reply #5 on: »
Sorry for any confusion - I know I made a mistake as the other side of the road is 18.30. I don't understand when you say CPZ (Controlled Parking Zone) is for single yellow lines only. My understanding of CPZ is there are parking restrictions in place which are governed by time. My mistake was to park on the wrong side of the road but I was tired and late. However I was wondering whether there was a representation I could make as it was 20.29 when the ticket was issued. If not I have to suck it up but to my mind its worth a try as there are so many experts on here
Your understanding of what a CPZ means is not correct, a CPZ governs the restriction times on single-yellow lines within the zone. This is so the council don't have to put up a sign by every bit of SYL in the zone. Times for parking bays may have the same restrictions, but need signs for each bay.

I would say it is well worth submitting representations on the time issue. How many car clocks or watches are synchronised with the atomic clock the council will claim their cameras are ? Of course any informal reps you submit will automatically be refused; that is how they make their money, because most people then just cough-up. To contest the time issue, you have to be prepared to take them all the way to London Tribunals.

Re: PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit
« Reply #6 on: »
OP, you haven't answered my question. The lower level penalty code 19 is for an invalid permit - do you have an expired resident or visitor permit or maybe one from another zone? Otherwise you should have been given a £130 code 16 penalty.

As for timing leaving aside the CEO's pics and relying on the PCN, you have a good case to hold Lambeth to account to London Councils guidance as below.

--------

Issuing a PCN where only a minor infringement is occurring

There are certain circumstances where a contravention is technically occurring but is sufficiently minor not to warrant a PCN being issued. The following is a list of some of the situations in which consideration should be made as to whether or not to issue a PCN.

b) Time restrictions/paid parking

Where a time restriction applies, CEOs should not issue a PCN less than two minutes before a restriction starts or less than two minutes after the restriction has expired. For example, if a restriction starts (or paid-for time expires) at 8.00am then a PCN should only be issued if the vehicle is in contravention after 8.02am. Similarly, if a restriction ends at 6.00pm then no PCNs should be issued after 5.58pm. It should be stressed that a vehicle in such a situation does not have the right to be in place for two minutes – this is not a grace period.

Re: PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit
« Reply #7 on: »
Thanks for your comments, I have a permit for my address in Lambeth - could this be why it’s a code 19? It would be the first time they have taken that into account! Therefore if I appeal and lose it could increase? Or if it’s an incorrect code does that nullify the PCN?

Re: PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit
« Reply #8 on: »
OP, we are trying to help and understand why the meanings of our questions might seem odd. But they're directed towards helping you and so far, I for one am confused.

If a motorist parks in a bay such as yours they should be issued with a code 16 higher level penalty because it's a permit holders only bay. But London councils often don't when dealing with their own resident permit holders because 16 has to carry the higher level penalty. Instead they use code 19(lower level) which is a derivative of 16 and its sister, code 12. This confuses the average motorist. If you're interested, here's the list: https://archive.londoncouncils.gov.uk/download/file/fid/28636

A PCN must state: e)the grounds on which the civil enforcement officer serving the notice believes that a penalty charge is payable;


According to your PCN, there's no way that the grounds can be reconciled against any list, schedule, regulation or guidance which I know.

Invalid permit? You either had one that was at one time valid for this parking place or not.  Are Lambeth taking liberties with the narrow definition of 'invalid' to include any resident permit holder who is parking in a bay reserved for other permits? This is not their prerogative, it's the Mayor of London's.

Electronic payment - ???