3. PCN 02J Vale Of Glamorgan issued 2 PCN at 13:55 & 13:57 on same road outside residential area
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PCN 02J Vale Of Glamorgan issued 2 PCN at 13:55 & 13:57 on same road outside residential area
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I was observed by mobile unit to park /unload in a restricted street where waiting and unloading restrictions in force . I have 2 PCNs issued 2 mins apart!! I remember the car driving past one way then coming back again the other way. I was on the same road outside the residential apartment we were staying at to allow my family member who was temp disabled with crutches and could not walk more than a 10 yards to his holiday apartment.

Is it valid for Vale of Glamorgan council to issue 2 PCNs for the same incident on the same street within 2 mins of each other?
NB I had stopped initially to locate the correct door for 30 seconds then moved 20 yrds up the street to the correct door so that my family member could access his front door.

Do I have an appeal case for dropping my family member outside his place of residence because there was no other means of dropping him off? ( all parking bays were full )

Time was 13:55

I have been issued the letters and its 10 days after the letter was issued . Help ?
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Re: PCN 02J Vale Of Glamorgan issued 2 PCN at 13:55 & 13:57 on same road outside residential area
« Reply #1 on: »
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Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man
Re: PCN 02J Vale Of Glamorgan issued 2 PCN at 13:55 & 13:57 on same road outside residential area
« Reply #2 on: »
Dropping off your family member is an exempt activity called "Boarding passengers" (also alighting of course !). SO one PCN can be argued on that basis.

Unfortunately, the Welsh Government, in its wisdom (!!!), did not follow the amendment to the regulations for postal PCNs for parking contraventions that restricted where CCTV could be used. So in Wales, council camera cars can just drive around photographing and then issuing thousands of PCNs based on the camera record. SO one has to ask how they know a Blue Badge holder is parked legally on yellow lines as one example.
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Re: PCN 02J Vale Of Glamorgan issued 2 PCN at 13:55 & 13:57 on same road outside residential area
« Reply #3 on: »
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Re: PCN 02J Vale Of Glamorgan issued 2 PCN at 13:55 & 13:57 on same road outside residential area
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote
Hope this works
Sorry, but it doesn't, because you haven't set the links to 'public'

PS : When I mentioned BB holders, it was an example of the iniquity of allowing councils to swan around the streets issuing PCNs to all and sundry based on CCTV, when they cannot possible know if an exempt activity is taking place.
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Re: PCN 02J Vale Of Glamorgan issued 2 PCN at 13:55 & 13:57 on same road outside residential area
« Reply #5 on: »
OP, would you pl just start with what you did and give us a timeline of events.

Om *** I parked in ** for the purpose of ***. Initially I stopped outside ** at which point I ****. After *** minutes I moved ** metres further along the road to o/s no. *** where I remained for ** minutes while I ****.

Subsequently I received 2 PCNs both for the same contravention of ***, one timed at *** and the other at *** showing my car at the two locations where I stopped.

Would make understanding much easier.   
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Re: PCN 02J Vale Of Glamorgan issued 2 PCN at 13:55 & 13:57 on same road outside residential area
« Reply #6 on: »
Thanks for the guidance . Here is my account with viewable links:

Links to the PCNs are now available for public viewing :
letter 2 :
front https://drive.google.com/file/d/1b8iXQo60T3UKyvPeRnyC_mhdIN6EcqEz/view?usp=drive_link
back https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v5iswmywXSirNzDLzuVqOKtDSurvsfdA/view?usp=drive_link

Letter 1 :
front https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AySG3CIpG8gO3npihLsVAM2M_KoyTO5n/view?usp=drive_link
back https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AySG3CIpG8gO3npihLsVAM2M_KoyTO5n/view?usp=drive_link

I stopped on Hood Road in Barry in the rainy storms of 23rd November ‘24 for the purpose of dropping of my brother to the apartment where he was residing. He was unable to walk without the aid of Crutches.
Initially I stopped outside Goodsheds apartments #5, Hood Road  Ref https://maps.app.goo.gl/KHGk6ZssHeiJDTRh7  at 13:55. This was the closest I could get to a parking bay. At which point my brother told me he could not walk with his crutches the extra 35 metres to his apartment.
I therefore waited for a clear gap in the traffic in front of me and ensured there was no traffic immediately coming from behind. After 1min I moved 35 metres, with my left indicator on kerbside, further along the road to outside the Goodsheds Apartment #9 Hood Road.

I remained in the car with the engine running for 2 minutes whilst my brother got himself out of the car with his crutches and stepped out immediately to his front door.
Once he had got out I immediately and safely drove away from the location.

Subsequently I received 2 PCNs both for the same contravention of 02J – “Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force.”
I received 2 posted PCNs, one timed at 13:55 and the other at 13:57 showing my car at the two locations where I stopped.
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Re: PCN 02J Vale Of Glamorgan issued 2 PCN at 13:55 & 13:57 on same road outside residential area
« Reply #7 on: »
The CCTV car traveled past me when I stopped first . Then after |I had moved up the road , The CCTV had finished his circuit turned around and then headed back past me, this time from behind, on Hood Road. 
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Re: PCN 02J Vale Of Glamorgan issued 2 PCN at 13:55 & 13:57 on same road outside residential area
« Reply #8 on: »
It really disgusts me that Vale of Glamorgan council have issued two PCN 2 minutes apart. It just demonstrates the iniquity of allowing stuff like this, but your wonderful Government in Wales seems to think this is all OK.

I would submit representations that you were engaged in alighting a passenger, who is disabled and then put in the circumstances as you have described here. If they prove obdurate, then I'd take them all the way to adjudication if necessary. The board/alight passengers is a valid exemption where you parked.
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Re: PCN 02J Vale Of Glamorgan issued 2 PCN at 13:55 & 13:57 on same road outside residential area
« Reply #9 on: »
Video and images don't seem to be online on their website. You could ask for videos. But the alighting exemption must succeed here.

Note that they accept representations only by mail, fax and email - use email.

Best draft something and post here first.
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Re: PCN 02J Vale Of Glamorgan issued 2 PCN at 13:55 & 13:57 on same road outside residential area
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: stamfordman on December 09, 2024, 02:25:06 pm
Video and images don't seem to be online on their website. You could ask for videos. But the alighting exemption must succeed here.

Note that they accept representations only by mail, fax and email - use email.

Best draft something and post here first.

Thanks -The postal PCN states that the response must be sent to the postal address and in writing.
Also on the form heading " Challenging the Penalty Charge " the choice from relevant options to tick:
(1) that the contravention did not occur
(2) The the Vehicle was hired at the time of the contravention....
(3) That the enforcement authority did not follow correct procedure in issuing the PCN
(4) That the Traffic Regulation order under which PCN was issued was invalid
(5) That there are other compelling reasons why the PCN should be cancelled

I am going to select option 5 and outline what I have said in the previous post ...Okay ?
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Re: PCN 02J Vale Of Glamorgan issued 2 PCN at 13:55 & 13:57 on same road outside residential area
« Reply #11 on: »
I would challenge by email - post is a last resort.

PCN is managed by Wales Penalty Processing Partnership.

You can say the contraventions did not occur owing to exempt activity.

As I said best draft here first.

--------------

Challenges must be made in writing but can be submitted in the following ways:

Letter (send to WPPP, PO Box 273, Rhyl LL18 9EJ)
Fax (send to 01745 839246)
Electronic Mail (send to pcn-query@wppp.org.uk)

https://www.wppp.org.uk/ChallengePcn
« Last Edit: December 09, 2024, 03:03:39 pm by stamfordman »
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Re: PCN 02J Vale Of Glamorgan issued 2 PCN at 13:55 & 13:57 on same road outside residential area
« Reply #12 on: »
Thanks Stamfordman.
I shall write it and email it to them .

Here is my Draft :

PCN VG20959955 & VG20959966 – Contravention Code 02J
[name ]
[address]
Challenge made due to The contraventions did not occur owing to exempt activity

I stopped on Hood Road in Barry in the rainy storms of 23rd November ‘24 for the purpose of alighting a passenger to the apartment where he was residing. He was unable to walk without the aid of Crutches.
Initially I stopped outside Goodsheds apartments #5, Hood Road  Ref https://maps.app.goo.gl/KHGk6ZssHeiJDTRh7  at 13:55 to alight my passenger.
This was the closest I could get to a parking bay. At which point my passenger told me he could not walk with his crutches the extra 35 metres to his apartment.
I therefore waited for a clear gap in the traffic in front of me and ensured there was no traffic immediately coming from behind. After 1min I moved 35 metres, with my left indicator on kerbside, further along the road to outside the Goodsheds Apartment #9 Hood Road.
I remained in the car with the engine running for 2 minutes whilst my passenger alighted and got himself out of the car with his crutches and stepped out immediately to his front door.
Once he had got out I immediately and safely drove away from the location.
Subsequently I received 2 PCNs both for the same contravention of 02J – “Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force.”
I received 2 posted PCNs, one timed at 13:55 and the other at 13:57 showing my car at the two locations where I stopped.
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Re: PCN 02J Vale Of Glamorgan issued 2 PCN at 13:55 & 13:57 on same road outside residential area
« Reply #13 on: »
* UPDATE*
I requested pictures and this has helped to remind me of the events specific to the times.

Pictures 13:55  https://drive.google.com/file/d/142A24n_Gk5c9rKDnDR-4l4NmSh3B4t0C/view?usp=drive_link

Pictures 13:57  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LFyuHSRAnFAuUDV4PCo_xxW-1tM1Mi5r/view?usp=drive_link

I can also attach in my case - doctors evidence of my passenger's condition if required.

My Draft for your review please :

PCN VG20959955 & VG20959966 – Contravention Code 02J
[name ]
[address]
Challenge made due to The contraventions did not occur owing to exempt activity .
I stopped on Hood Road in Barry in the rainy storms of 23rd November ‘24 for the purpose of allowing my passenger to board the car directly from his apartment front door. He was unable to walk without the aid of Crutches.

Initially I stopped outside Goodsheds apartments #5, Hood Road  Ref https://maps.app.goo.gl/KHGk6ZssHeiJDTRh7  at 13:55 with my hazards on, drivers side alongside the kerb so that my passenger could board the car.
Due to the intensity of the rain and the passenger stating that he was not physically able to walk with crutches off the kerb to walk around the car to enter the front passenger seat, I was told to turn the car around.

After 1min, I proceeded to drive down Hood Road, safely turn the car around and come back up Hood Road to a slowly stop outside the Goodsheds Apartment #9 Hood Road at 13:57
I remained in the car with my hazard lights on for 2 minutes whilst my passenger boarded the front passenger side of the car from his apartment door with the aid of his crutches.
Once he had got in I immediately and safely drove away from the location.

Subsequently I received 2 PCNs both for the same contravention of 02J – “Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force.”
I received 2 posted PCNs, one timed at 13:55 and the other at 13:57 showing my car at the two locations where I stopped.
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Re: PCN 02J Vale Of Glamorgan issued 2 PCN at 13:55 & 13:57 on same road outside residential area
« Reply #14 on: »
You should say the passenger is your brother and you know his needs well.

The draft looks OK although you are presumably stating the times you did things based on their PCN timing?

Their pictures don't show anyone boarding - you could ask for the video for the second one but with these drive by PCNs they often don't show exempt activity that would have been seen by a CEO on foot. That's their fault.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2024, 10:24:58 am by stamfordman »
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  3. PCN 02J Vale Of Glamorgan issued 2 PCN at 13:55 & 13:57 on same road outside residential area