Author Topic: PCN (21) Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space - O/S 145-159 SOUTH LAMBETH ROAD SW8  (Read 427 times)

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Greetings and Salutations,

I am very much disheartened to receive a penalty charge notice for this alleged contravention.  This is one of two £80 PCNs I got on the same day from the same TFL region. So truly sad.

Having numerous problems with my car overheating which was chugging along VERY slowly (maybe clutch is going?), I stopped briefly to allow my car to cool down and to get my bearings (my phone battery died, had no satnav, stopped to try and charge it).

I genuinely thought I was in the box (didn't see the ending due to not being clear / heavy lorries). Also did not see any signs.



I'm not too sure regarding signage/regulations and i'm not sure as too the enforceable nature of this PCN, nor any loopholes.

I'm just writing to see if there is any precedent to appeal this. Perhaps some arcane ruling regarding the enforceability for this regulation. From the very little info i've managed to gleam, I've already made a start to challenge this. I called TFL this morning on 0343 222 3333  and requested DVD footage for the whole thing. TFL said this will take up to 15 days, and they will put my PCN on hold for 14 days whilst this is being posted to me. They gave me a reference number for this. So having bought some time to prepare, i'm hoping some of you genteel, learned, refined and knowledgeable individuals can help.

I've included my PCN and photos from the camera operator - including one bizarre TFL camera photo of me taken just coming in and out of the bus lane, which seems to show nothing to do with the parking. These 3 are the only camera photos taken of this 'contravention' that i pulled from the TFL website.

I've also included a Google street view photos (although old  street mapping, c. 2022) indicating where I stopped.

Any thoughts would be most welcome.

Thanks for your time reading into this.










Google Street Maps
« Last Edit: April 08, 2024, 10:43:59 pm by cp8759 »
A Lemon Tootski - a term I call for that lovely lemon Fixed Penalty Sticker that appears on your windscreen, after a nice day out with the kids.

A Lemon Tootski: The only souvenir from your family day out that really sticks with you!

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The PCN is for parking in the bay because it is suspended. You can see the yellow parking suspension sign in the photographs.  It is not for parking outside the bay as you seem to think.

Your GSV link is to 131, S Lambeth Road, but the PCN says 145-149. Here is the actual bay that matches the PCN address, and looks like the one you stopped at : -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/CTxxfUs79RWzHKm19
and here is the sign for the bay, which on the day you stopped had a suspension sign on it.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/45mWE7w1j2LMnUp27

You say you didn't see any sign, but did you get out of the car to go and look for one ?

Wait for others to come on here, but as a Transport for London PCN, experience on the forum is that these can be fought on faults in their documents and processes, but you might have to take them to London Tribunals to win.



I have already replied to the OP on Pepipoo as follows:-

Transport for London does not have approval for a suspension sign therefore this PCN is unenforceable IMO.

Case reference 2180309331
Appellant Richard Mills
Authority Transport for London
VRM GC16AEY
PCN Details
PCN GF68259162
Contravention date 09 Apr 2018
Contravention time 15:46:00
Contravention location
Victoria Embankment
Contravention: Stopped where prohibited on red route or clearway
Decision Date 15 Sep 2018
Adjudicator Anthony Chan
Appeal decision
Appeal allowed
Direction cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.
Reasons
The Appellant attended in person.
The Appellant made several points one of which is that the suspension sign is not authorised. There may be
an issue as to whether such a sign needs to be authorised but the Authority's case is that the sign is
authorised. That being the case, the Authority must provide evidence of the authorisation. It has not done so. I
allow the appeal.

OP I doubt you were in the parking bay anyway but on the DRLs, ask for the video :-

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4778849,-0....i8192?entry=ttu

I would send the following reps:-

Name
Address
VRM
PCN Number

I challenge liability for PCN ??????? because the contravention alleged did not occur. Penalty charges can only be imposed by signs authorised under section 64(2) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, this means either signs authorised by the Traffic Signs Regulations 2016, or by signs specifically authorised by the Secretary of State.

The Traffic Signs Regulations 2016 do not authorise any parking suspension signs, and a search of the Department for Transport website at https://www.dft.gov.uk/traffic-auths/ indicates that Transport for London has not obtained a special authorisation from the Secretary of State for the use of any parking suspension signs.

In the absence of a lawful parking suspension sign, the contravention alleged cannot have occurred.

Yours
--------------------
Mike

Further to mikes point it is not a RR contravention so CCTV cannot be used to enforce and even if it could the pictures are not clear enough to say a contravention occurred

@LemonTootski this really simple:

Dear Transport for London,

I challenge liability for this PCN because the alleged contravention did not, and indeed could not occur. The allegation on the notice is "Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space", this contravention only occurs if a vehicle is stationary in a designated parking place or space which has been suspended. As there are no designated parking places on red routes, the contravention alleged did not occur.

Furthermore, Transport for London does not have any authorised sign to convey that a parking place or space has been suspended, no doubt because Transport for London does not provide any designated parking places or spaces, and no such sign is authorised by the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016.

Lastly the PCN does not comply with the requirements imposed by the second part of paragraph 3(1)(a) of Schedule 2 to The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Approved Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions) (England) Regulations 2022, and that is a procedural impropriety.

It follows that the penalty charge notice must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,


As with the other case, make sure to keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Actually, the issue with  Mike's point not a RR contravention so CCTV
A Lemon Tootski - a term I call for that lovely lemon Fixed Penalty Sticker that appears on your windscreen, after a nice day out with the kids.

A Lemon Tootski: The only souvenir from your family day out that really sticks with you!

Oh, ignore that. i've spotted the discrepancy. thanks.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2024, 01:31:18 am by LemonTootski »
A Lemon Tootski - a term I call for that lovely lemon Fixed Penalty Sticker that appears on your windscreen, after a nice day out with the kids.

A Lemon Tootski: The only souvenir from your family day out that really sticks with you!

Well thanks, cp8759. I admire your confidence and the way you state: "This is really simple". But now I read it, it actually is very clear and black and white.

This site really does help others to educate themselves in challenging erroneous PCNs. Knowing little things like ...keeping the postage envelope it arrived in can make all the difference!

I'll give your wording a go, and put in my challenge to the PCN now.

And thanks MMVRedvux (Mike), Incandescent and other contributors in this thread.

I think this is a very well presented thread - succinct (one page long), easy and clear to read, and to the point.

It's my hope that this post will really help others who find themselves in similar situations with this PCN.


WILL KEEP YOU POSTED...
« Last Edit: April 15, 2024, 02:20:50 am by LemonTootski »
A Lemon Tootski - a term I call for that lovely lemon Fixed Penalty Sticker that appears on your windscreen, after a nice day out with the kids.

A Lemon Tootski: The only souvenir from your family day out that really sticks with you!

@LemonTootski please bear in mind TFL will undoubtedly reject, don't let that discourage you, the representations are just there to set us up for the tribunal.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Done...

They will probably reject the rep, but heyho. this old girl's still got a little fight in her yet :)

Tbc ...

A Lemon Tootski - a term I call for that lovely lemon Fixed Penalty Sticker that appears on your windscreen, after a nice day out with the kids.

A Lemon Tootski: The only souvenir from your family day out that really sticks with you!