Author Topic: Parking app claims "parking is currently free" and doesn't let me pay; I got a fine and they refuse to cancel it  (Read 1571 times)

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I had an appointment at 8am with the police to give a statement about a crime; I parked in front of the police station at about 7:55 and attempted to pay for parking; payment for parking is required only 8am-6pm. I normally pay by app (RingGo), I hoped I could pay for 1 hour and that it would start rolling at 8am, so I would be covered until 9am. However, when I attempted it, the app said "parking is currently free" and it didn't let me.  But instead, you are supposed to wait until 8:00am, pay, and then arrive at your appointment slightly late.
Before entering the police station to give my statement, I tried again to pay (around 8:05am) and the officer said to do it outside because they don't get good signal inside, the app still didn't let me pay ("parking is currently free"). Midway through my appointment the officer reminded me about the parking and suggested I went outside to try and pay again; it still didn't let me ("parking is currently free"), for peace of mind I took a screen recording on my phone and I also mentioned this to the police officer (which said: "if you took a screenshot you'll probably be fine"); I didn't know at the time (around 8:34), but the fine had already been issued. I only found out at around 9am that there was a PCN on the windscreen (issued at 8:20).

I immediatly challenged this online as I though it would be an easy one, so I wrote the following without giving it much thought:
Hello, I parked my car just before 8 am as I had an appointment with Warwickshire police at 8am.
I tried paying via the RingGo app but it wouldn’t let me because it said the parking was currently free. I tried again just after 8 and the app was still showing me the same message; I informed the officer I had an appointment with about this.
Half a way through my appointment he reminded me about the parking and he suggested me to get outside to get a better signal and pay. I still got the same message so I took a screen recording of it and gave up.

I wasn't able to upload a video, I'm not even sure if I managed to upload a photo. I thought that in case they wanted to see it I could provide it.

This was their answer


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Please let us know when you get the notice to owner.

Are you able to share the screen recording with us? If you don't want to post it publicly, by all means PM me a link.

I have also requested the traffic order and the parking logs for this date, if there was a fault with the system the logs should confirm this.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order


I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

I would think a word with the policeman should get you a note giving on the instruction of police exemption validity even if that instruction was only implied

A couple of elements in their reply bother me.

First is their opening paragraph that under the 2004 act they can only treat your enquiry as an informal rep..... What did you send to them?

The second is their comment that you should have used the payment machine.
And there seems to be one
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.2881115,-1.5329046,3a,66.6y,75.55h,97.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1see9NoHsLU4Tys4LihOTjYg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
That may need to be addressed in the future.

However, taking CP's point... the order says:-13(4)
"Any person who wilfully avoids or seeks to avoid or assists in avoiding the
payment of the specified charge for parking shall be guilty of contravening this
Order. "
The last thing that anyone can say is that you willfully avoided or sought to avoid payment.
On the contrary, you made every effort in using the council sanctioned app and the app would not let you pay.
This is akin to a P&D machine spitting your coins back out.
In any further challenge, the council should be asked to explain how you willfully avoided payment.
It can be inferred if someone ignores the requirement to pay but not when there are recorded efforts to pay.

I would think a word with the policeman should get you a note giving on the instruction of police exemption validity even if that instruction was only implied
No such exemption was implied.

The usual FOb-Off letter from the council. They actually admit in so many words thatif you arrive before 8 am and want to park into the pay hours, you have to wait around until that time is reached. It is really quite absurd.

If it were me, I'd take them all the way on this one.  A typical thick and stupid parking department that we see so often.

Notice to owner received

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Draft reps:

Dear Warwickshire County Council,

In the first instance I rely on my informal representations, as I sought to explain there I made a concerted and repeated effort to pay the appropriate parking charge and it is the inadequacy of the council's systems that prevented me from doing so.

To expand on that, I had an appointment at 8am with the police to give a statement about a crime; I parked in front of the police station at about 7:55 and attempted to pay for parking; payment for parking is required only 8am-6pm. I normally pay by app (RingGo), I hoped I could pay for 1 hour and that it would start rolling at 8am, so I would be covered until 9am. However, when I attempted it, the app said "parking is currently free" and it didn't let me.

Before entering the police station to give my statement, I tried again to pay (around 8:05am) and the officer said to do it outside because they don't get good signal inside, the app still didn't let me pay ("parking is currently free"). Midway through my appointment the officer reminded me about the parking and suggested I went outside to try and pay again; it still didn't let me ("parking is currently free"), for peace of mind I took a screen recording on my phone which has been placed at (link)

I didn't know at the time (around 8:34), but the penalty charge had already been issued. I only found out at around 9am that there was a PCN on the windscreen (issued at 8:20).

Most authorities across the country provide both pay & display and telephone payment facilities that allow payment prior to the controlled hours, because for instance if one parks at 6 am it would be absurd to require someone to hang around at the parking place until 8 am in order to effect payment at that time. Indeed, there are many areas with daytime charge and pay & display machines where one can buy a pay and display ticket the night before with a start time of 8 am (or whenever the charges begin), so in this instance the root cause of the issue is the inadequacy of the council's parking systems.

All that being said, I draw your attention to The Warwickshire County Council (District of Warwick) (Civil Enforcement Area) (Waiting Restrictions, On Street Parking Places and Residents Parking) (Consolidation) Order 2017 which provides at article 13(4) that:

Any person who wilfully avoids or seeks to avoid or assists in avoiding the payment of the specified charge for parking shall be guilty of contravening this Order.

Quite plainly the council has no hope of showing that I avoided or sought to avoid making payment, on the contrary I made repeated efforts to effect payment and it is the council's use of a payment system that is not fit for purpose that thwarted those attempts. While it is true that usually such contraventions do not include an element of mens rea, you have chosen to draft the traffic order in such a manner that an element of intent is required for a contravention to occur. Applying the principle of contra proferentem, the council cannot avoid the consequences of the wording it chose when drafting the traffic order.

As I did not wilfully avoid or seek to avoid payment, I am not guilty of contravening your traffic order, so the penalty charge notice must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully


I will send you a link to the video to put into the representation, do not click on that link. The reason is that if the view count is zero by the time you get a notice of rejection, we then have proof that they've failed to consider all of the supporting evidence submitted, which is a procedural impropriety. If the notice of rejection says they've carefully considered the representations, we've also got them for lying.

Lastly don't use the text box on the council website for the representation, rather put the representation in the PDF and in the text box where they want you to write the representation, just say something like "see attached PDF".
« Last Edit: September 10, 2023, 08:21:44 pm by cp8759 »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Thank you very much you're a star!. I have just sent the representation and I haven't opened the link
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I have just received a notice of rejection
It seems like they are still repeating themselves
https://imgur.com/a/4NaQJp2

Did they watch the video?

OP, let's get back to what I consider is the key issue.

I don't think you would succeed with the 'did not wilfully' for the very reason that there are alternative payment methods which you positively chose not to use. Therefore, if there was a requirement to pay then you were at fault.But include it if you wish, but I would do so after the following argument.

I've put this in bold because you posted:

 I tried again to pay (around 8:05am) and the officer said to do it outside because they don't get good signal inside, the app still didn't let me pay ("parking is currently free"). Midway through my appointment the officer reminded me about the parking and suggested I went outside to try and pay again; it still didn't let me ("parking is currently free"), for peace of mind I took a screen recording on my phone and I also mentioned this to the police officer (which said: "if you took a screenshot you'll probably be fine"); I didn't know at the time (around 8:34).

The issue is therefore that whereas on the one hand the sign required payment you have evidence from their service provider that payment was not required. The authority have wilfully missed this point and banged on about alternative methods. But these only apply IF there is a requirement to pay.

Just as it's not a motorist's task to traipse the streets double-checking whether there are signs which contradict the one where they've parked then IMO the same applies here.
Your video is so rapid that I can't stop it at each frame, but you say that RingGo gave the consistent message of parking is free at just before 8am, approx. 8.05 and again at 8.34.

But they ignored this.

I suspect you'll appeal, in which case throw in procedural impropriety. The NOR fails to notify you of the following mandatory elements:
The adjudicator's power to accept an appeal submitted late;
The grounds on which costs may be awarded against either party.

Referring you to a telephone number or a website is b******s IMO. If this was acceptable, then they shouldn't feel compelled to include anything other than a website address. But they do, because it's the law.
It's not their right to decide on the importance of the various elements of the mandatory information and which parts should or should not be included in a NOR, parliament has done this for them.