3. parked over a dropped kerb but....
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Re: parked over a dropped kerb but....
« Reply #15 on: »
That's what I'd send. Wait and see if Mr Andersen thinks it's really too much of a fairy tale. I think you'd win this at the tribunal if Havering don't cancel. 
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Re: parked over a dropped kerb but....
« Reply #16 on: »
I don't know what you're trying to say here..

the footway is also not lowered across the footway's extent to where it meets the fence, at the point where my car was.

Your CEO has only taken a picture of a trivial incursion by what seems to be a historical part of the kerbside and failed to give the whole picture that this part of the footway is not fully lowered into the premises.

IMO, you can't claim triviality(de minimis) as regards the lowered kerb, every part of your car beyond the front wheel was adjacent.

The point is that, albeit lowered and no doubt for a qualifying purpose when installed, this purpose does not subsist and therefore 'lowered' does not equal 'dropped'.
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Re: parked over a dropped kerb but....
« Reply #17 on: »
If you look at the picture the OP took and on Google Maps the footway may be lowered at the kerbside but not across the footway as you can see it then lowers at a point further to the right. I can't see how this, coupled with the fence, can be seen as assisting vehicles entering or leaving the carriageway.

The best the authority can do IMO is argue that where the OP was is part of access to after the fence ends.   
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Re: parked over a dropped kerb but....
« Reply #18 on: »
I think I understand the point, however, a qualifying 'dropped footway' only has to meet the carriageway at the carriageway. Its configuration further back doesn't feature as regards this limb of the requirement.

And as regards the second limb i.e. its purpose, IMO the barrier is a stronger argument than the contours of the footway which if included I'd make subordinate to the fence. 

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Re: parked over a dropped kerb but....
« Reply #19 on: »
Well the contravention refers to footway not kerb and only exists in conjunction with one or more of the assistance limbs. I'd say a footway that has an obstacle that prevents these limbs despite being initially lowered is not qualifying. The counterfactual is would we cave in if the fence wasn't there.
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Re: parked over a dropped kerb but....
« Reply #20 on: »
V3, is this ok>?

Dear Havering,

The contravention did not occur as no part of my vehicle was adjacent to a section of lowered footway that is there for the purpose of assisting vehicles entering or leaving the carriageway across the footway.

As you can see from a picture I took after receiving the PCN (enclosed), not only is there a fixed fence that has been there since at least 2008 according to Google Maps, the footway is also not lowered across the footway's extent to where it meets the fence, at the point where my car was.

Your CEO has only taken a picture of a trivial incursion by what seems to be a historical part of the kerbside and failed to give the whole picture that this part of the footway is not fully lowered into the premises.

As the contravention only exists in conjunction with one or more of the assistance limbs and as this footway has an obstacle (the fixed fence) that prevents these limbs, I do not believe this situation is a qualifying contravention.

I trust you will cancel this PCN which seems to have been issued in error and look forward to your early confirmation of cancellation.

[/quote]
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Re: parked over a dropped kerb but....
« Reply #21 on: »
I would change this:

As the contravention only exists in conjunction with one or more of the assistance limbs and as this footway has an obstacle (the fixed fence) that prevents these limbs, I do not believe this situation is a qualifying contravention.

to this:

As the contravention only exists in conjunction with one or more of the three reasons for assistance (vehicle, pedestrian, cycle) across the footway, the two obstacles by my car - the fixed fence and the step down at the rear of the footway - prevents any such assistance, so I do not believe this situation is a qualifying contravention.


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Re: parked over a dropped kerb but....
« Reply #22 on: »
Thanks
So V4 is:

Dear Havering,

The contravention did not occur as no part of my vehicle was adjacent to a section of lowered footway that is there for the purpose of assisting vehicles entering or leaving the carriageway across the footway.

As you can see from a picture I took after receiving the PCN (enclosed), not only is there a fixed fence that has been there since at least 2008 according to Google Maps, the footway is also not lowered across the footway's extent to where it meets the fence, at the point where my car was.

Your CEO has only taken a picture of a trivial incursion by what seems to be a historical part of the kerbside and failed to give the whole picture that this part of the footway is not fully lowered into the premises.

As the contravention only exists in conjunction with one or more of the three reasons for assistance (vehicle, pedestrian, cycle) across the footway, the two obstacles by my car - the fixed fence and the step down at the rear of the footway - prevents any such assistance, so I do not believe this situation is a qualifying contravention.

I trust you will cancel this PCN which seems to have been issued in error and look forward to your early confirmation of cancellation.

[/quote]
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Re: parked over a dropped kerb but....
« Reply #23 on: »
I think that will do and if they reject and don't reoffer the discount as they say you'll be following this through to the tribunal assuming they then reject formal reps so all ducks in a row from the start.
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Re: parked over a dropped kerb but....
« Reply #24 on: »
Appeal lodged.
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Re: parked over a dropped kerb but....
« Reply #25 on: »
I have now received the response. I think its very important that they have said "causing an obstruction to pedestrians and other road users" This is untrue, due to the solid fence that is parallel to where the car is parked. Additionally, the photos do not reflect this and it feels that this is deliberately misleading. Will you be able to help once I get the notice? Thanks again.



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Re: parked over a dropped kerb but....
« Reply #26 on: »
As promised they are not reoffering the discount so obviously now wait for the NTO.

The rejection is just mindless template and has no regard to your challenge.

Is the car logbook up to date with your name and address.

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Re: parked over a dropped kerb but....
« Reply #27 on: »
"Is the car logbook up to date with your name and address"

It was but I sold the car last week, to someone I know.
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Re: parked over a dropped kerb but....
« Reply #28 on: »
Assuming you and the new owner have done what you must with the logbook then the new owner should get the NTO although it wouldn't surprise me if it's still sent to you as Havering has your details on its system.

Either way you must ensure it's intercepted. If it goes to the new owner they can make reps saying they weren't the owner and naming you.
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Re: parked over a dropped kerb but....
« Reply #29 on: »
Either way you must ensure it's intercepted. If it goes to the new owner they can make reps saying they weren't the owner and naming you.

So when he receives it do you mean he SHOULD name me or should I ask him for it to complete?
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  3. parked over a dropped kerb but....