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Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge

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Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
on:
#1
Hi All,

My Dad parked in Gants Hill to do some shopping & displayed his disabled blue badge, after confirming (from the paying machine) that it was ok to do so i.e. not needing to go on to the (Ringo app) and booking a free slot for an hour, etc

He returned to the car to find a PCN tucked under the wiper and found out from the street signage (that he drove past) that it was prohibited during the hours of 4-7 pm.

He had seen the parking walden and explained to him that if it had displayed the specific parking restrictions on the paying machine, he would not have parked, etc, but the parking walden laughed it off and walked away and said you need to pay the fine.

Does my Dad have a chance to appeal the PCN or is he bang to rights here, better off paying the fine?

Street View:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5750635,0.066364,3a,75y,6.54h,98.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxshUDkxeeznY8k3qVEwS3A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu













Last Edit: April 13, 2024, 02:58:15 am by zeezee
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Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Reply #1 on:
#2
Quote
My Dad parked in Gants Hill to do some shopping & displayed his disabled blue badge, after confirming (from the paying machine) that it was ok to do so i.e. not needing to go on to the (Ringo app) and booking a free slot for an hour, etc
OK, so where on the machine does it confirm that he could park as a BB holder by displaying the BB only ?
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Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Reply #4 on:
#5
The CEO should not have said what they allegedly said. Require their notes I would. There is a potential wording issue.

Ref: PCN  VRM

       
I challenge this PCN as follows:

The wording of the PCN in terms of the 28 days period is wrong since it does not comply with Schedule 2 para. 2 @
  https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/schedule/2

(d)that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred,

In light of this procedural impropriety please cancel the PCN.

*************
Also, I cannot find the old Regulation 3(2)(b) re if we serve a Notice to Owner notwithstanding any representations being made, you must make representations as per the NTO?
Last Edit: April 13, 2024, 01:08:52 pm by Hippocrates
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@ALL MEMBERS

I HAVE A HIGH COURT CASE RE JUDICIAL REVIEW BUT WILL DO MY BEST TO ADVISE AND TAKE ON CASES IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.

If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Reply #5 on:
#6
Quote from: Hippocrates on April 13, 2024, 12:51:11 pm
The CEO should not have said what they allegedly said. Require their notes I would. There is a potential wording issue.

Ref: PCN  VRM

       
I challenge this PCN as follows:

The wording of the PCN in terms of the 28 days period is wrong since it does not comply with Schedule 2 para. 2 @
  https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/schedule/2

(d)that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred,

In light of this procedural impropriety please cancel the PCN.

*************
Also, I cannot find the old Regulation 3(2)(b) re if we serve a Notice to Owner notwithstanding any representations being made, you must make representations as per the NTO?

@Hippocrites - I'll follow your procedure and appeal - Thank you

Re: Asking for the notes - can I ask that in the appeal as a side note?
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Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Reply #6 on:
#7
I would leave out the bit I can't find at present.  You can ask for the notes.
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@ALL MEMBERS

I HAVE A HIGH COURT CASE RE JUDICIAL REVIEW BUT WILL DO MY BEST TO ADVISE AND TAKE ON CASES IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.

If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Reply #7 on:
#8
Thank you - So will the following be ok to send off?
--------

Ref: PCN  VRM

I challenge this PCN as follows:

The wording of the PCN in terms of the 28 days period is wrong since it does not comply with Schedule 2 para. 2 @ - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/schedule/2 .

(d)that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred,

In light of this procedural impropriety please cancel the PCN.

Also, could I kindly request the notes of the parking officer? I managed to meet the parking officer on the day for an explaination of why the PCN was given. He explained that I shouldn't have parked in the bus lane and that I should pay the fine.
Last Edit: April 17, 2024, 06:58:42 pm by zeezee
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Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Reply #8 on:
#9
@zeezee everyone here seems to have missed the blindingly obvious: the allegation is 01, and a blue badge was on display. A blue badge is a complete defence to a waiting contravention (as long as the parking disc AKA parking clock is correctly displayed and the 3 hour time limit has not been exceeded) and while I appreciate there is a loading restriction, a code 02 is not on the PCN and it's far too late for the council to change it now.

Dear London Borough of Redbridge,

The contravention alleged on the face of the notice is "01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours", however as the CEO's photos will confirm my blue badge was properly displayed. By virtue of regulation 8(2) of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Exemptions for Disabled Persons) (England) Regulations 2000, a properly displayed disabled person's badge is a complete defence to the contravention alleged on the face of the penalty charge notice.

It follows that the contravention alleged did not occur and the penalty charge must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

Send this online and make sure to keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Reply #9 on:
#10
Sorry.
Logged
@ALL MEMBERS

I HAVE A HIGH COURT CASE RE JUDICIAL REVIEW BUT WILL DO MY BEST TO ADVISE AND TAKE ON CASES IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.

If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Reply #10 on:
#11
With these Ring Go machines, what about those of us to don't posses a smart phone or credit/debit card? How can we be expected to pay for or book parking?
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Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.
Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Reply #11 on:
#12
And to add my 2 pence worth.... maybe to make it easier for the motorist (which they do not), is to have a block on those periods where you can't park on the app (if you did have a smartphone), so for example, if you did try to book a spot between let's say 4-7 pm THE RINGO app would come back with an error message, etc.
-----------

Anyway, I've added @cp8759's response to the potential rep.

Is this ok to send off?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ref: PCN  VRM

I challenge this PCN on 2 fronts:

1. The wording of the PCN in terms of the 28 days period is wrong since it does not comply with Schedule 2 para. 2 @ - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/schedule/2 .

(d)that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred.

2. The contravention alleged on the face of the notice is "01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours", however as the CEO's photos will confirm my blue badge was properly displayed. By virtue of regulation 8(2) of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Exemptions for Disabled Persons) (England) Regulations 2000, a properly displayed disabled person's badge is a complete defense to the contravention alleged on the face of the penalty charge notice.

In light of this procedural impropriety & regarding the blue badge the penalty charge must be cancelled.

Also, could I kindly request the notes of the parking officer? I managed to meet the parking officer on the day for an explanation of why the PCN was given. He explained that I shouldn't have parked in the bus lane and that I should pay the fine.


Kind Regards

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Reply #12 on:
#13
@zeezee it's up to you but my recommendation is to send what I drafted exactly as it is. You won't get the CEO's notes in this way so there's no point in asking, you would have to make a subject access request under GDPR but that would be entirely separate from the representations process. I also don't see how the CEO's notes would make any difference.
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Reply #13 on:
#14
@cp8759 - Thank you

- I'll take that advice on board (and will remember to take that screenshot - just in case the council denied my rep received (but I'm sure I'll get an email confirmation - let's see).

I think I have until this Friday for the 14 days to expire - so I will submit the rep before then.
Last Edit: April 22, 2024, 12:23:58 am by zeezee
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Re: Parked in restriced hrs bus lane, Gants Hill, Redbridge
Reply #14 on:
#15
I know it's Ringo only in Redbridge these days (from 1st Feb 2024) but the Ticket Machine says Charges Apply Mon-Sat 8:30am - 6:30pm - Disabled Free

Plus the signs still say - Or pay at machine.

Seems misleading to me.

Have the times changes since 1st Feb?
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