Author Topic: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first  (Read 1593 times)

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Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
« on: »
Just over a week ago, I received a Notice to Owner (NTO) for contravention code 46: “Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway),” but I never received a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) beforehand.

When I returned to my vehicle, two Civil Enforcement Officers (CEOs) were standing nearby, but there was no PCN attached to the vehicle.

As I approached, one of the CEOs attempted to stop me, saying a ticket had already been issued and that I needed to wait. Meanwhile, the other officer seemed to be quickly inputting details into her handheld device. From what I could see, no ticket had been printed at that point.

I didn’t engage and simply got in the car and drove off, as I’ve always understood that a PCN must either be fixed to the vehicle or handed to the driver for it to be considered properly served.

Their evidence shows my vehicle stationary from the front and back (3 minutes apart) without any PCN attached.

Notice to Owner linked below:

Notice to Owner

really hope someone can help?

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Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
« Reply #1 on: »
You've deleted the PCN no. so we can't access their photos.

Pl reinstate the PCN no.

The simple analysis goes:

You returned to the car and did not find a PCN affixed to the vehicle;
You therefore dispute that one was served;
This is supported by your account AND (we hope) council photos, none of which shows a PCN having been served;

Grounds of reps: Procedural impropriety.

The burden then shifts to the council to prove that a PCN was served and to explain why, if this was the case, service has not been recorded.

Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
« Reply #2 on: »
You've deleted the PCN no. so we can't access their photos.

Pl reinstate the PCN no.

The simple analysis goes:

You returned to the car and did not find a PCN affixed to the vehicle;
You therefore dispute that one was served;
This is supported by your account AND (we hope) council photos, none of which shows a PCN having been served;

Grounds of reps: Procedural impropriety.

The burden then shifts to the council to prove that a PCN was served and to explain why, if this was the case, service has not been recorded.

I'm sorry, I thought I needed to scrub that off!

Anyway, this is it >> RG40219655

Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
« Reply #3 on: »
If they had sent you a postal PCN on the basis that you drove away before it could be served to you or the car, then you'd be struggling, but by serving a Notice to Owner, they've shot themselves in the foot. For your information, the Traffic Management Act 2004 introduced clauses to deal with drivers who drive away before a PCN can be served,

Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
« Reply #4 on: »
Only three pics and no PCN on van.





Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
« Reply #5 on: »
15 seconds apart.

Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
« Reply #6 on: »
If they had sent you a postal PCN on the basis that you drove away before it could be served to you or the car, then you'd be struggling, but by serving a Notice to Owner, they've shot themselves in the foot. For your information, the Traffic Management Act 2004 introduced clauses to deal with drivers who drive away before a PCN can be served,

I don't recall them saying anything about how they allege a PCN was served?

Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
« Reply #7 on: »
By the way, should they not be taking pictures after issuing a PCN? I wonder why she did that.

I saw that it hadn't even been printed by the time I hopped back in my Van.

Is there a scenario where they'd need to post a PCN? I mean, if a driver is present and unwilling to take the PCN by hand, the CEO should have been able to attach and photo it on the vehicle. They could even photograph the PCN in the drivers hand?

Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
« Reply #8 on: »
So i simply select reason: "Procedural impropriety" with no need to say anything else?

Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
« Reply #9 on: »
Just received a notice of rejection :(

Would really appreciate some expert guidance. They seem to just ignore our last request for evidence and hold to their position. I must say, I'm quite irritated that they should say "I can assure you, a Penalty Charge Notice was affixed to the vehicle. However it is possible it was removed by someone or or had blown off"

This is total rubbish. I returned to the vehicle as their warden was fumbling about with her ticket machine. She had not printed it before I drove off.

This council use sticky slips that would not blow off. And if it had, then why didn't she just pick it up and take the picture. Why didn't she state that in her notes. If someone took it off, did they take it off in front of her or after she had left. If it was after she left, well then she would have had a picture of it on the vehicle before she left. If it was in front of her, again, I'm sure she would have noted it.

Link to Photos

Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
« Reply #10 on: »
Don't know why the section is headed 'applying discretion'.

If you are sure no PCN was served on the van take them to the tribunal and opt for a telephone hearing.

Adjudicators take a dim view of authorities telling porkies.


Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
« Reply #11 on: »
More procedural improprieties in the NOR than you can shake a stick at. IMO, they're doomed just by these.

Register appeal:
Procedural impropriety;

Then come back here.

We can expand on the PIs when it's registered.

Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
« Reply #12 on: »
Great,

So when registering the appeal with the tribunal website, I won't be asked for anything beyond the details of the NTO?

Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
« Reply #13 on: »
Don't know why the section is headed 'applying discretion'.

If you are sure no PCN was served on the van take them to the tribunal and opt for a telephone hearing.

Adjudicators take a dim view of authorities telling porkies.



I hope so because that really is BS.

Why could the not have come clean and said whatever the warden said, and where nothing was written, to say, we do not have a picture and can't say why one wasn't taken.

Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
« Reply #14 on: »
They should indeed have come clean and admitted they served the wrong document - a postal PCN looks like it would have been correct. But they sent an NTO instead.

We see a wrongly served NTO quite often and it can come down to your word against theirs, which is why speaking to the adjudicator is vital should they contest.

I suspect in this case they've not bothered to check the CEO's notes and when they do won't contest the appeal.