Author Topic: Enfield, code 33c using a bus gate, Bull Lane N18 - ability to use procedural impropriety in appeal.  (Read 676 times)

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Am I correct in understanding that, for PCNs issued for moving traffic offences in London (under the London Local Authorities and TFL Act 2003), procedural impropriety is not a valid ground for appeal, and there is therefore no effective remedy against PCNs which are defective/non-compliant?

Specifically, I have received a PCN from LB Enfield which I believe does not contain the statutorily required information and the LA has failed to address that point in their NOR, so I am now looking at London Tribunals but concerned that they actually don't have authority to consider an appeal on that basis.

PCN

Formal Representations

NOR

Image 1 - Number Plate (close range)

Image 2 - Number plate (long range)

Image 3 - CCTV

Video

Street View - Note that GSV is out of date and doesn't show the current bus gate or current signage.

I am not the registered keeper - the vehicle is leased. LA advise that they served PCN on registered keeper on 27/5/24 prior to transferring liability to me.

TIA
« Last Edit: July 23, 2024, 01:08:51 pm by randomtask »

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So the experts here can check your concerns (and see if there are any other grounds to contest) please have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and post up here all sides of the PCN (redacting only name & address) and a GSV link to the location.

Am I correct in understanding that, for PCNs issued for moving traffic offences in London (under the London Local Authorities and TFL Act 2003), procedural impropriety is not a valid ground for appeal, and there is therefore no effective remedy against PCNs which are defective/non-compliant?

Specifically, I have received a PCN from LB Enfield which I believe does not contain the statutorily required information and the LA has failed to address that point in their NOR, so I am now looking at London Tribunals but concerned that they actually don't have authority to consider an appeal on that basis.

TIA
Use 1 (4)(e)
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted

Thanks. Happy to post the PCN etc if required but I thought it simpler not to as I'm only looking for advice at this stage on a specific but generic point, i.e. the existence of a right to appeal a moving traffic PCN issued in London on the grounds of procedural impropriety.

I had thought that s1(4)(e) was probably the only available route but it didn't really seem to fit, but I suppose it would be bizarre if there was no right to appeal for this reason simply because the PCN was issued in London.

IMO, you are boxing us into a corner by deciding what's relevant and what is not and yet apparently seeking help to get a penalty charge which has advanced to a NOR cancelled. 

'..in the circumstances of the case' was IMO written with such procedural matters in mind.

So, rather than limit what we can see in order to help you, which must necessarily limit your chances of success, pl may we see the PCN, the video, your reps, their NOR and (because you'll redact your name and address) confirm that you are the registered keeper. 
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Thanks, I have modified the OP and uploaded requested info accordingly.

Just bumping this, with apologies if that's frowned upon. If so, I'll wait patiently. Just wanted to make sure it didn't get lost  :)

Please show us the hire agreement.

NOR does not include power of adjudicator to extend time in which to appeal.

Also:  will serve a C.C. not may.

PCN does  not include post for payment.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2024, 07:25:09 pm by Hippocrates »
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Thank you.

Hire Agreement

So I should include reference to those defects in my application for adjudication? Are they all included in the LLA & TFL Act 2003 or should I look elsewhere for the statutory references?

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-spreadsheet/

check the hire agreement against the cases on cp's spreadsheet. Go to adjudications and key cases.

The other questions are in the legislation yes and there are cases in support.
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"