Author Topic: Newcastle City Council - Code 73 - PCN because payment machine wasnt working so paid only on way out - Eldon square MSCP  (Read 253 times)

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Y H

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Hi,

I received a parking ticket through no fault of my own and need help appealing this. @cp8759
I by mistake wrote back to the council not realizing it was a mistake. :-\

Please see below the message I sent to appeal my fine. I have attached my evidence I sent them, as well as their reply. I would appreciate it if you would be able to advise me what my next step should be.

Google map link to location https://maps.app.goo.gl/tdS4Cs9Hk2ym6BRC8

Thank you

What I send to the council:
I parked my car in Eldon Square parking lot and went to the machine to pay. My card was declined so I tried again, but again it was declined. I had another card on me so I tried that card but it was not accepted as it was an Amex card. I checked my balance to see why my card was declined but there was plenty funds on my card so I could not work out why it was declined. I checked if I could pay cash but that was not an option.
There was no-one around to talk to, so with no other choice as I had an appointment to catch, I decided I would attend my appointment and try again on the way out. If it would not work, I would email the address on the poster.
I came back after my appointment and thankfully this time my card was accepted.
However, I came back to my car and was shocked to see I had gotten a parking ticket!
As I did pay and this issue was not a fault of my own, I am appealing the penalty. Thank you for your understanding

« Last Edit: March 12, 2025, 08:37:56 pm by cp8759 »

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Incandescent

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Any reason for not paying by phone ?

H C Andersen

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The PCN pl.

2 declined payments of £14.07 and £14.02 at 14.09 and 14.10 respectively.

Actual payment of £1.94 at 14.47.

Why the discrepancy between amounts?


Y H

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I don't recall seeing the option to pay by phone. I just went for a quick appointment so figured I'll try again on the way out and if i dont manage there was an email address provided on the parking sign by the machine that I would email.
There was no-one around at the machine to help with the payment, but they suddenly appeared a few minutes later to give a parking fin

The declined payments should not have been for any particular amount. There are 2 payment options. Either pay for a specific amount of time upon arrival, or login when upon arrival and put you card in the machine and on the way out tap your card again and it is charged for the amount of time you parked for. I chose the second option.
As I wasn't able to pay on the way in, I paid for a specific amount of time on the way out to try cover the time I had been there.

cp8759

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@Y H please post the PCN, both sides in full, no redactions.

Please contact your bank and ask if they're able to confirm any failed payments. Also make a subject access request to dataprotection@newcastle.gov.uk asking for a log of all payments and attempted payments made from the relevant machine 20 February 2025, from each of your two cards.

Here are the council photos:











Is there any way you could go back and get photos of the machine? If there weren't any signs on the machine mentioning pay by phone, that removes that argument for the council.

In the meantime I will get hold of the parking places order.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

H C Andersen

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The declined payments should not have been for any particular amount. There are 2 payment options. Either pay for a specific amount of time upon arrival, or login when upon arrival and put you card in the machine and on the way out tap your card again and it is charged for the amount of time you parked for. I chose the second option.

I simply looked at your evidence which shows those amounts. Whether they should or shouldn't..they do!

There was no-one around at the machine to help with the payment, but they suddenly appeared a few minutes later to give a parking fin..

Photos of served PCN @ 14.37.

Your last payment effort..14.10.

27 minutes is hardly 'a few minutes later'.

OP, we simply need the bald facts and leave it with us to do the best with these, to do which we need a sound and - as far as the authority are concerned- unchallengeable footing.

Y H

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Ok thank you.

I have attached my PCN.


Is this OK to send for the SAR?

Please can I have a log of all payments and attempted payments made from the payment machine in Eldon Square MSCP on 20th February 2025, from my 2 cards.
1. Visa Debit ending ***7773
2. American express ending  ***1005

Thank you





« Last Edit: March 12, 2025, 09:54:42 pm by cp8759 »

cp8759

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Is this OK to send for the SAR?

Please can I have a log of all payments and attempted payments made from the payment machine in Eldon Square MSCP on 20th February 2025, from my 2 cards.
1. Visa Debit ending ***7773
2. American express ending  ***1005

I would suggest you attach the two declined payment receipts and the pay & display ticket, and word the query as follows:

Dear Newcastle City Council,

I hereby request, under article 15 of GDPR, a log of all payments and attempted payments made from the pay and display machine in Eldon Square multi-storey car park on 20th February 2025, from my 2 cards.
1. Visa Debit ending ***7773
2. American express ending  ***1005

I attach receipt for three such transactions and I request a copy of all successful and failed payments logged for these two cards by the machine.

Yours faithfully,


You will also need to attach proof of address and proof of ID.

Will it be possible for you to go back and get some photos of the machine?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Y H

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Thanks for that.

I may be able to get pictures of the machine, but it will be after the weekend.

cp8759

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Thanks for that.

I may be able to get pictures of the machine, but it will be after the weekend.

That's OK, a notice to owner can't be served before the middle of next week anyway and even if it is served, it just means you get an extra 28 days to make formal representations against it.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Y H

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Y H

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Hi,

Please see attached the reply I received for the SAR.
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cp8759

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I would go back to the council and ask what caused the failed payments to fail.

I would ask your bank the same question.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

H C Andersen

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Contravention 20 Feb.

Last day of 28-day period: Sun. 16 March after which they could serve a NTO.

If you wait until after the weekend then you risk them disregarding any informal reps if they're quick off the mark with a NTO.

cp8759

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Contravention 20 Feb.

Last day of 28-day period: Sun. 16 March after which they could serve a NTO.

If you wait until after the weekend then you risk them disregarding any informal reps if they're quick off the mark with a NTO.
Informal reps have already been made, and there's an informal rejection on the opening post extending the discount to 21 March, so they can't serve the NTO before then. If they do, then it's an open and shut appeal on the penalty exceeds ground.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order