3. MICHELL WAY (Bus Lane) BROMLEY Code34J
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concoj

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MICHELL WAY (Bus Lane) BROMLEY Code34J
« on: December 22, 2023, 01:11:55 pm »
PLease help


Contravention code 34J

I never got the PCN notice for £65 instead I have been served with a £130 pcn notice.

Im so stupid and don't know why I didn't check that

Too many signs? or maybe red pavement bus lane missing? I don't know

Perhaps nothing we can do or maybe is a chance to fight as the first letter never arrived or posted?

I sound desperate, I know... two penalties just before Christmas isn't good news

Thank you to every one in here for your time and expertise.



https://parking.bromley.gov.uk/live-3sc-user/viewimage.aspx?000234eu8rHg/oWc2JJ6TgbcO6fAgFrLsdKeXaJB0k51Q2ZKu57uun2FbZkKqnOz1hS/I/hcu2Co5H5iJ+fciHQPmifw==


https://parking.bromley.gov.uk/live-3sc-user/viewVideo.aspx?000101bqiHfe3ItLIOgXp30/phb0EIz5AJecb1Sv0sW5Du5SoQ2vWR63XzRAEnVZ2kPG66/AfpzLvqoaDjAewmFDInIw==


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Incandescent

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Re: MICHELL WAY (Bus Lane) BROMLEY Code34J
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2023, 02:11:39 pm »
We've seen this one before !  Looking at GSV, there have been a few minor signage changes, but where you got the idea of it needing red tarmac, I don't know ! There's nothing like that in the regulations.

If you do a search of the London Tribunals statutory register on Mitchell Way from 1st Jan 2021, there have been 21 adjudications, most of them unsuccessful. There was an issue with camera approvals until quite recently but I think that has now been dealt with. I'm afraid the likelihood of a successful appeal is low, in my opinion.
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concoj

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Re: MICHELL WAY (Bus Lane) BROMLEY Code34J
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2023, 03:07:41 pm »
thanks incas.

Anything about the 1st missing letter. Should I had been given a chance to pay the pcn for £65 and not rigth away the humungous £130?
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Incandescent

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Re: MICHELL WAY (Bus Lane) BROMLEY Code34J
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2023, 07:48:45 pm »
Quote from: concoj on December 22, 2023, 03:07:41 pm
thanks incas.

Anything about the 1st missing letter. Should I had been given a chance to pay the pcn for £65 and not rigth away the humungous £130?
Yes, submit representations stating you found the layout and signage confusing, but was surprised to not receive the original PCN, so have been denied the opportunity to pay at the discounted rate. Request that they re-offer it.
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Hippocrates

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Re: MICHELL WAY (Bus Lane) BROMLEY Code34J
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2023, 11:46:08 pm »
Quote from: concoj on December 22, 2023, 03:07:41 pm
thanks incas.

Anything about the 1st missing letter. Should I had been given a chance to pay the pcn for £65 and not rigth away the humungous £130?

No PCNs?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2023, 11:47:54 pm by Hippocrates »
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

Incandescent

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Re: MICHELL WAY (Bus Lane) BROMLEY Code34J
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2023, 11:57:57 pm »
Quote from: Hippocrates on December 22, 2023, 11:46:08 pm
Quote from: concoj on December 22, 2023, 03:07:41 pm
thanks incas.

Anything about the 1st missing letter. Should I had been given a chance to pay the pcn for £65 and not rigth away the humungous £130?

No PCNs?
OP seems to have only received the Enforcement Notice, and he posted this.
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Hippocrates

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Re: MICHELL WAY (Bus Lane) BROMLEY Code34J
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2023, 12:11:36 pm »
I see only page 1.
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

Incandescent

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Re: MICHELL WAY (Bus Lane) BROMLEY Code34J
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2023, 06:13:54 pm »
Quote from: Hippocrates on December 23, 2023, 12:11:36 pm
I see only page 1.
Ah, right !

OP, can you please post-up all sides of the Enforcement Notice
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concoj

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Re: MICHELL WAY (Bus Lane) BROMLEY Code34J
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2023, 01:03:57 pm »
Sure thing
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Hippocrates

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Re: MICHELL WAY (Bus Lane) BROMLEY Code34J
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2023, 01:14:33 pm »
The last ground clearly fetters/limits to theft.

I further bring a collateral challenge on the basis that the PCN is unenforceable because the taken without consent ground clearly fetters to theft by its very wording that a crime report be provided. Therefore, this inaccurate reflection of the statutory ground does not take into account that a relative, or friend, may have taken the vehicle without the owner's permission so that the owner would not necessarily, if at all, report the matter to the Police in such circumstances.

If you want me to be really pedantic, you could also add that the Enforcement Notice does not include the ground that the Police are taking action;  but, the legislation is an ass as this ground is not mandated to appear on either the PCN or EN.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/section/9/enacted
« Last Edit: December 24, 2023, 06:22:50 pm by Hippocrates »
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

concoj

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Re: MICHELL WAY (Bus Lane) BROMLEY Code34J
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2023, 12:25:22 pm »
Hi guys,

thank you so much for your help Incandesce & Hipocrates...

I uploaded all the information I received from them as you requested but unfortunately I got lost with last messages and I don not how to proceed.

Could you please help me as I want to send something to stop them with any process agains me


many thanks
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Hippocrates

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Re: MICHELL WAY (Bus Lane) BROMLEY Code34J
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2023, 01:10:16 pm »
Submit again your original challenge and my advice above re the taken without consent ground.  6th January is the absolute deadline.


I further bring a collateral challenge on the basis that the PCN is unenforceable because the taken without consent ground clearly fetters to theft by its very wording that a crime report be provided. Therefore, this inaccurate reflection of the statutory ground does not take into account that a relative, or friend, may have taken the vehicle without the owner's permission so that the owner would not necessarily, if at all, report the matter to the Police in such circumstances.

Also, I would make an immediate FOIR to Bromley for the name and model of the camera used to capture images at this very bus lane.

Cavide.James@bromley.gov.uk

Dear C. James

Please may I have replies to the following:

1.  The name and make and model of the camera used to capture bus lane contraventions at Mitchell Way?

Thank you.

Yours sincerely

Name

Address
« Last Edit: December 30, 2023, 01:24:05 pm by Hippocrates »
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

concoj

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Re: MICHELL WAY (Bus Lane) BROMLEY Code34J
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2023, 01:20:25 pm »
I havent challenge anything yet
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Hippocrates

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Re: MICHELL WAY (Bus Lane) BROMLEY Code34J
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2023, 02:26:30 pm »
Then get on with it.
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ

concoj

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Re: MICHELL WAY (Bus Lane) BROMLEY Code34J
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2023, 02:59:55 pm »
what should I tell them
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