Author Topic: Merton - PCN 12u - car model not stated  (Read 459 times)

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Merton - PCN 12u - car model not stated
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Hello,
The driver (who is not the same as the registered keeper), parked on Woodhayes road in Wimbledon.
The westbound carriageway side of the road are Pay & Display bays. The eastbound side of the road are Permit holder only. She was not aware of this, and parked on the eastbound side directly opposite a pay & display sign.
The permit holder only signs on her side of the road were spaced 60 metres apart hence she didn't see them as she parked right in the middle of the two very small sign posts. She assumed it was pay & display as she saw the large sign directly opposite and duly paid on the Ringo app, crossed the road and went on her way as she was running late.
Personally I think 60m spacing is way too far apart, but it's within the recommendation of section 13.4.14 of the Traffic Signs Manual, so not much I can contest there?

Is the PCN valid please, given it does not state the model of the car?

Please note the parking signs on google street view are out of date. I have therefore included a link to a youtube video. The car was parked opposite the Fiat 500 (more or less in the space occupied by the BMW X5).

PCN number: MT00300279
Car Reg: AJ21 NSZ
GSV: https://tinyurl.com/yn2ssk2s
PCN page 1: https://ibb.co/DYjt0HR
PCN page 2: https://ibb.co/BKy0hzy
The driver's photo when she returned to the car, the sign opposite for pay & display clearly visible. This is also the same sign you see at the end of the youtube video I took: https://ibb.co/jr2LJHG

Youtube video:
« Last Edit: December 13, 2024, 09:41:14 am by IanO »

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Re: Merton - PCN 12u - car model not stated
« Reply #1 on: »
Car model is not mandatory on a PCN.

You should only rely on the sign in the bay you are in and your duty is to look at those.

You're right that they've been lazy and replaced yellow line timeplates at each end of the bay and there is a post or two mid-way for an extra sign.

The bay is just signed as a permit bay and the correct code for that is 16 but it's not a winning argument IMO.

The PCN tome is 16 mins before the bay is a free for all but too long to be of use.

Worth having a go at the lack of a mid-way sign and the code and the driver parked in good faith and paid but we usually see these challenges on wrong bay rejected.





Re: Merton - PCN 12u - car model not stated
« Reply #2 on: »
This case the other day indicates the signs at each end is probably going to satisfy an adjudicator and your bay isn't that long.

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2240430298

Mr Totman has challenged this PCN throughout on the basis that this 60 metre parking bay has a single sign centrally placed and not the required sign at either end of the bay. The Council has not contested this requirement, maintaining instead that the signage was adequate to alert motorists and that the point raised amounts to "a minor defect". I do not regard the omission of a sign at either bay end of a 60 metre parking bay to be a minor defect. In my judgement, such an omission could only be regarded as a substantial defect. I allow the appeal for that reason.

Re: Merton - PCN 12u - car model not stated
« Reply #3 on: »
She was not aware of this, and parked on the eastbound side directly opposite a pay & display sign.
The permit holder only signs on her side of the road were spaced 60 metres apart hence she didn't see them as she parked right in the middle of the two very small sign posts


This doesn't tallly with the evidence which shows the car parked opposite 'The King's Club' and the applicable traffic sign on lamppost 005 which was a matter of a few metres to the rear of the car, not in the middle of a 60-metre long parking place implicitly approx. 30m from either sign.

Re: Merton - PCN 12u - car model not stated
« Reply #4 on: »
She was not aware of this, and parked on the eastbound side directly opposite a pay & display sign.
The permit holder only signs on her side of the road were spaced 60 metres apart hence she didn't see them as she parked right in the middle of the two very small sign posts


This doesn't tallly with the evidence which shows the car parked opposite 'The King's Club' and the applicable traffic sign on lamppost 005 which was a matter of a few metres to the rear of the car, not in the middle of a 60-metre long parking place implicitly approx. 30m from either sign.

The car was parked nowhere near the sign post 005,
30m is still a heck of a distance to try and spot a small sign side on! I’ve seen other councils minimize the distance between signs to 30m, not 60m

Re: Merton - PCN 12u - car model not stated
« Reply #5 on: »
This case the other day indicates the signs at each end is probably going to satisfy an adjudicator and your bay isn't that long.

-----------

2240430298

Mr Totman has challenged this PCN throughout on the basis that this 60 metre parking bay has a single sign centrally placed and not the required sign at either end of the bay. The Council has not contested this requirement, maintaining instead that the signage was adequate to alert motorists and that the point raised amounts to "a minor defect". I do not regard the omission of a sign at either bay end of a 60 metre parking bay to be a minor defect. In my judgement, such an omission could only be regarded as a substantial defect. I allow the appeal for that reason.

Ok thanks so not worth risking that then!

Re: Merton - PCN 12u - car model not stated
« Reply #6 on: »
The basic error here is that the driver read a sign across the road as applicable to the parking bay where the car was parked, rather than looking for the sign for the bay on the same side.  A mistake which quite a few people make judging by previous threads on here. Whether the signs for the bay where parked are adequate or not is irrelevant, frankly; the driver has an obligation when parking in a marked bay to look for the sign for that bay to find out what restrictions there might be.  Sorry to have to say this, BTW.

Re: Merton - PCN 12u - car model not stated
« Reply #7 on: »
GSV shows lamppost 005 immediately opposite The King's Club.

I would ask you to disregard what the driver has said for the moment and just focus on the objective evidence.