3. MerseyFlow - Mersey Gateway 42 PCNs
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MerseyFlow - Mersey Gateway 42 PCNs
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Hi all,

Hoping to get some guidance here.

I am a Halton resident so part of the LUDS scheme (£10 for a years access on Mersey Gateway bridges). In February i purchased a new car and the day after i went to the Mersey Flow offices and registered my new car and paid the £10 for the year.

A few weeks later i purchased a private plate and installed on my car, and i didnt realise i needed to inform Mersey Flow of the change as i figured i could use the bridge pass for the year without issue and update the next year.

A few more weeks went by and i received in 1 envelope with 20 PCNs from Mersey Flow. I went straight to the offices where they told me what had happened (i changed my plate) and informed me i had over 40 fines in total.

After updating my account with my new reg they informed me they can let me pay 50% of the tolls now at £2 per crossing but the rest will go to collections.

earlier this month i received an email from collections informing me i had 1 month to conjure a Statement of Financial Situation in order for them to consider reducing the fine and/or giving me a payment plan, with the fine at £866. i replied asking if im paying the £2 per crossing, they said no. I asked if i could appeal this fine, they said no.

So i'm unsure what to do here. Any advice is welcome.

Below are the 21 fines i am 'liable' for, with the rest being paid at £2.

Contravention date / issue date / received date
12/03 30/03 01/04
12/03 30/03 01/04
13/03 30/03 01/04
13/03 30/03 01/04
14/03 30/03 01/04
14/03 30/03 01/04
15/03 30/03 01/04
15/03 30/03 01/04
15/03 30/03 01/04
15/03 30/03 01/04

16/03 03/04 06/04
16/03 03/04 06/04
17/03 03/04 06/04
17/03 03/04 06/04
18/03 03/04 06/04
18/03 03/04 06/04

20/03 04/04 06/04
20/04 04/04 06/04
21/04 04/04 06/04
21/04 04/04 06/04


Thank you
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Re: MerseyFlow - Mersey Gateway 42 PCNs
« Reply #1 on: »
Having looked at your original thread at the old site
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=150459

Have you done all the requests in posts ##11, .#13,#14 over there?

Please also post up here all e-mail correspondence (to and from) including the two posted in your post#12 there.

Have you contacted BailiffOnline?
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Re: MerseyFlow - Mersey Gateway 42 PCNs
« Reply #2 on: »
In terms of how much i owe for each crossing, id assume it's £42 (40 PCN + 2 for original crossing) which totals to £882. Im not sure where the £866 comes from they're asking for. I could ask but i was advised to not contact them.

In terms of BailifOnline, i have just sent them a message. But i assume the debt is still with Mersey Gateway as i havent heard anything since.

Correspondence attached.

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Re: MerseyFlow - Mersey Gateway 42 PCNs
« Reply #3 on: »
And last email from them attached.

Could i ask the importance of the Charge Certificate / Order of Recovery stages? Does this make the debt enforceable? I have also contacted Traffic Enforcement Centre again and there is still no debt against me.

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Re: MerseyFlow - Mersey Gateway 42 PCNs
« Reply #4 on: »
To save having to go back to the other thread, please remind us exactly how each of the 42 PCNs was received and on what dates.

( Were they contained in two envelopes sent by post as the other thread seems to suggest? )
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Re: MerseyFlow - Mersey Gateway 42 PCNs
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: John U.K. on July 14, 2023, 06:09:16 pm
To save having to go back to the other thread, please remind us exactly how each of the 42 PCNs was received and on what dates.

( Were they contained in two envelopes sent by post as the other thread seems to suggest? )
+1.

Also you might want to have a read of https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/charge-certificates-and-orders-for-recovery/ but don't try and action anything without getting our advice first. It's surprisingly easy to mess things up.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: MerseyFlow - Mersey Gateway 42 PCNs
« Reply #6 on: »
Hi both, All info regarding the PCNs i actually received are in my initial post here.

I received 11 initially (via post in 1 envelope) on 01/04, then 10 more in 2 envelopes on 06/04 totalling 21. The other 21 i never received PCNs for as i paid the tolls crossing fees when i went into the office as soon as i received the first 11. But they assured me i had 42 in total and 'kindly' reduce it to 21 after paying the standard toll.

My time to produce a SFS was up on the 04/07 and i havent heard anything from them. Assuming i will hear something soon though.

What should my next steps be? Keep an eye on Traffic Enforcement Centre? I also email Bailiff Advice but never heard back. I will try again
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Re: MerseyFlow - Mersey Gateway 42 PCNs
« Reply #7 on: »
To be fair to bailiffadvice, you aren't at the bailiff stage yet, and we hope you don't get that far. The site can get very busy with so many postal PCNs being issued these days not getting to their intended recipient.
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Re: MerseyFlow - Mersey Gateway 42 PCNs
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: Lewiss on July 20, 2023, 09:40:08 am
Hi both, All info regarding the PCNs i actually received are in my initial post here.

I received 11 initially (via post in 1 envelope) on 01/04, then 10 more in 2 envelopes on 06/04 totalling 21.
So when you received all these PCNs, did you challenge them?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: MerseyFlow - Mersey Gateway 42 PCNs
« Reply #9 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on July 20, 2023, 10:01:41 pm
Quote from: Lewiss on July 20, 2023, 09:40:08 am
Hi both, All info regarding the PCNs i actually received are in my initial post here.

I received 11 initially (via post in 1 envelope) on 01/04, then 10 more in 2 envelopes on 06/04 totalling 21.
So when you received all these PCNs, did you challenge them?

I didnt formally appeal, i went into the offices nearby where i was told the below:

  • I have 42 in total
  • 21 havent been issued yet and i can pay the £2 per crossing for those
  • the 21 which have been issued have been passed to 'collections', and to keep an eye on email/post

So i thought nothing more of it, and figured when collections get in touch they will also want £2 per crossing.

2 months later i get a demand from complaints team for the full amount or an SFS to consider a payment plan or reduction.

This left me with no way to appeal or even pay the reduced £20 initial offer
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Re: MerseyFlow - Mersey Gateway 42 PCNs
« Reply #10 on: »
Not being funny but you've been sent a bunch of notices that say quite explicitly that if you don't respond really bad things will happen, and from what you say you just took someone's word for it that "nah, don't worry about it, it's fine".

Do you have anything in writing or some other record to confirm the information you were given?

If you can at least prove that this is what you were told you might have grounds to pursue a complaint or even claim a legitimate expectation, but if there's no record of it you're going to struggle to convince anyone that you were given any sort of assurance from the authority. Otherwise anyone who had a load of PCNs could just make it up that they went into the offices and someone (who isn't even identified) told them not to worry about it.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: MerseyFlow - Mersey Gateway 42 PCNs
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on July 21, 2023, 10:13:59 am
Not being funny but you've been sent a bunch of notices that say quite explicitly that if you don't respond really bad things will happen, and from what you say you just took someone's word for it that "nah, don't worry about it, it's fine".

Do you have anything in writing or some other record to confirm the information you were given?

If you can at least prove that this is what you were told you might have grounds to pursue a complaint or even claim a legitimate expectation, but if there's no record of it you're going to struggle to convince anyone that you were given any sort of assurance from the authority. Otherwise anyone who had a load of PCNs could just make it up that they went into the offices and someone (who isn't even identified) told them not to worry about it.

i know what you're saying but there is evidence i went in, not what was said. All that can be said ins that it is unfair.

They didnt even stipulate which PCNs im liable for, for all i know the 21 i have with me now are not the ones they are chasing.
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Re: MerseyFlow - Mersey Gateway 42 PCNs
« Reply #12 on: »
I'm really sorry to tell you that, within the scope of the appeals regulations, there is nothing you can do. You could try and get a payment plan agreed, but they don't have to, and you have no recourse if they simply refuse and demand the full amount.

You know what PCNs they are chasing, they're the 21 PCNs you received in the post and never responded to.

Only the documents you've received count, anything they told you verbally in the office isn't worth diddly squat unfortunately.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: MerseyFlow - Mersey Gateway 42 PCNs
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on July 22, 2023, 12:27:32 am
I'm really sorry to tell you that, within the scope of the appeals regulations, there is nothing you can do. You could try and get a payment plan agreed, but they don't have to, and you have no recourse if they simply refuse and demand the full amount.

You know what PCNs they are chasing, they're the 21 PCNs you received in the post and never responded to.

Only the documents you've received count, anything they told you verbally in the office isn't worth diddly squat unfortunately.

Is there no formal complaint i can make?
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Re: MerseyFlow - Mersey Gateway 42 PCNs
« Reply #14 on: »
You can, but they'll just say it's your fault for not making representations against the PCN. The PCN says that you must pay or make representations, you did neither.
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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