Author Topic: Match day restrictions - Wandsworth  (Read 629 times)

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Match day restrictions - Wandsworth
« on: »
Hi,

I'd appreciate some help with the following:

Details of previous correspondence

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Hnm9y4x0hXtC2n8Rwe2wShuS0_ffFAEP?usp=share_link

Location:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/z6aNXJE27yuwqKT2A

The files, which, hopefully, tell the story, are:
- Original ticket.
- My appeal letter, which references 2 photos I took on the day, showing the lack of "game day signage".
- The council's rejection letter, which rejects the concept of additional game-day signage, and, instead refers residents to a website, where it appears to be our responsibility to check if a game is on or not.

Any steer on next steps would be appreciated.

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Re: Match day restrictions - Wandsworth
« Reply #1 on: »
One thing to add: Our permit area is subject to the same additional match day restrictions as the zone where the ticket was issued. In other words, we were not entering a match day restricted area from outside the zone, as the council’s response appears to suggest. We were simply parking in the same local area as usual — within our permitted zone.

Re: Match day restrictions - Wandsworth
« Reply #2 on: »
What wee need to see is app the council documents in full redacting only name and address. All the council photos and your challenge in full it sound like you may have a good case but need to be able to present it all

Re: Match day restrictions - Wandsworth
« Reply #3 on: »
Here is the link:

https://parking.wandsworth.gov.uk/pcn/Home/GetPCNDetails

PCN number is WA9226637A
Licence number is KR71LFU

This shows all of the details on the ticket via one of the photos. I have also uploaded the back of the ticket onto the Google drive.



Re: Match day restrictions - Wandsworth
« Reply #4 on: »
My understanding from your narrative is that you are a permit holder for a zone with the same event day restrictions as the zone where you parked, but are not an L2 permit holder. 

I don't think we've seen a case like yours on here.  Essentially, you drove within the event area consisting of two or more zones, so didn't pass any signs giving the event day.  However, I expect the council expect residents with permits for zones with event day restrictions to find out the dates of event days. Normal practice is to have the dates on zone entry signs, but not within the zone.  The sign should, surely, be clear enough; there are additional restrictions on event days so only L2 permit holders can park within the event hours.

Essentially, you seem to be saying that every bay sign should have the next event day date on it, and I don't think any adjudicator would see this as a reasonable demand.

Re: Match day restrictions - Wandsworth
« Reply #5 on: »
My interpretation of the council position is that we now need to check the council website every week to see when there are events on, and therefore the additional controls are in place.

This is different from their previous approach, which was to put up a temporary sign each weekend to show that there was a match on at the stadium. Given the absence of such signage on the 17th, my interpretation was that this was not a match weekend.


Re: Match day restrictions - Wandsworth
« Reply #6 on: »
You have not 'appealed', you have made initial representations.(it also refers to 18 May which is incorrect, it was 17th).

I cannot find the council's rejection which would have spelt out the next stage i.e. pay or wait for NTO to be served on the registered keeper. Is the RK you and are your DVLA details current?

By way of background, 17th May was not a regular fixture, it was the League 2 Play-Off Semi-Final against Notts County (which we won!). I wonder if perhaps the ad-hoc nature of the fixture and KO time were such that the council disregarded its normal practice of displaying notices on the CPZ signs which your photo seems to suggest was the case? But how would this help motorists from outside the affected zone(s)?

Re: Match day restrictions - Wandsworth
« Reply #7 on: »
Thanks. Fair point re: 17th vs 18th.  Yes, I'm the registered keeper, with up-to-date DVLA records.

I suppose the council's logic is that if you are not from the general area and you travel by car to a match (eg you came from Nottingham that day) you wouldn't register any change in restrictions, but you'd notice the concept of a match-day restriction from the permanent sign in place - it's a disincentive to come by car.


Here is the "next steps" text from the letter received, but also the link to the Google drive:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G6lQvQnpKOaFkIBSXggBP13oT5xzfbMo/view?usp=share_link


"Given the above, I am satisfied that the PCN was correctly issued and regrettably, you have
not established sufficient grounds for cancellation of this penalty charge. As your enquiry was
received within the discount period the amount of £70.00, will be accepted if payment is
received within 14 days of the date of this letter.
To make a credit or debit card payment please call our 24 hour automated payment line
on 0800 021 7763 or pay online by visiting www.wandsworth.gov.uk/pcnonline.
Alternatively, your cheque or postal order should be made payable to “Wandsworth Borough
Council”, clearly identified with the Notice number written on the reverse side and sent to:
Wandsworth Borough Council (Parking), PO Box 521, Twickenham, TW1 9PJ.
If payment is not received as detailed, I shall assume that you wish to pursue the matter and
shall arrange for a Notice to Owner to be sent to the registered keeper of the vehicle so that
formal representations may be made. Should these be rejected, the registered keeper of the
vehicle will then be afforded the opportunity to appeal to the Parking Adjudicator.
I should point out that, should you decide to take this course of action, on the expiry of the
discount period you will forfeit the right to pay the Penalty Charge at the lower rate and the
full charge of £140.00 will be due.
If you are not the registered keeper of the vehicle e.g. the vehicle is a company or lease/hire
vehicle, or being used with the owner’s consent, I suggest you advise the keeper that a
Notice to Owner (NTO) will be issued.
The options are therefore to pay the PCN or follow the statutory process to submit a formal
representation as explained above. Any further information or evidence for the Council's
consideration should only be included as part of the formal representation made by the
registered keeper. Any additional communication received prior to the issue of the NTO will
be filed for information purposes only without a response, although it may be considered if
formal representations are received.
This concludes the Council’s dealings in this matter at this stage".

Re: Match day restrictions - Wandsworth
« Reply #8 on: »
Well, it's up to you, but I don't think your case is particularly strong, sorry to have to say it, Others may disagree of course, so wait a bit. If you wait for the Notice to Owner, it will be with the full PCN penalty in play, although they may reoffer the discount when rejecting formal reps against the NtO. If you take them to London Tribunals, the full PCN penalty is in play.

Re: Match day restrictions - Wandsworth
« Reply #9 on: »
Not forgetting the PCN contravention description!

The mandated description is: Parked in a residents’ or shared use parking place or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place where required, or without payment of the parking charge.

Whereas this PCN stops at:


or clearly displaying a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit or voucher or.....

Or what, your telephone number, your birthday?

The PCN is defective.

Grounds:
'Penalty exceeded the amount applicable......circumstances of the case'.

IMO, wait for the NTO.

1. It will have the full description and therefore not be a lawful demand for the penalty = you win.

2. It won't, which means it's not a lawful demand = you win.

Re: Match day restrictions - Wandsworth
« Reply #10 on: »
Well spotted, but is it a winner ?

Re: Match day restrictions - Wandsworth
« Reply #11 on: »
Your challenge was way off beam IMO.

Where do you live - in an adjoining zone?
Why did you drive to that parking place?
What route did you take?

Point being they may have considered a polite ask by a resident, and whose permit was maybe invalid rather than no valid permit (and hence a lower level penalty). 

Instead you went off on tribunal cases and gave no context.