Author Topic: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention  (Read 2603 times)

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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #45 on: »
Received no fellow support feedback here  :'(
Going to have to pay the fine I guess…
Sorry, but we have to do other things from time to time, and give our time freely on this forum.

As I said before, I would take them to the tribunal if it were me, based on their management of the enforcement process. All their NOR tells you, you already know. It would be something of a gamble, and it's your money not mine.

I appreciate your response. Is there a guide somewhere on how to peruse the tribunal route with this that I can follow?

Thanks again


Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #47 on: »

Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #48 on: »
https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/how-to-appeal/

Thanks do I have to notify MCC that this is what I’m proceeding with?
Not as far as I know. When you register an appeal, the TPT will inform the council. It is best to always opt for a telephone or video adjudication, not a papers-based one. The latter means you cannot answer questions the adjudicator may ask.

Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #49 on: »
I have opened a case with the tribunals.
So far I have added,
Grounds of Appeal:
The authority made a procedural error
Explanation:
I am appealing based on Manchester City councils management of the enforcement process and their failure to correctly deal with my representations. The representations text does not seem to appear on their website either.

In the evidence page there is the two NOR and on the second one I have mentioned,
There was no statement made on the appeal of the pcn being paid.

I have added the original pcn to evidence and added,
The listed statutory grounds of appeal on the PCN are missing these grounds.
(g)the order which is alleged to have been contravened in relation to the vehicle concerned, except where it is an order to which Part 6 of Schedule 9 to the RTRA 1984 applies, is invalid;
(i)the enforcement notice should not have been served because—
(i)the penalty charge has already been paid in full, or
(ii)the penalty charge has been paid, reduced by the amount of any discount set in accordance with Schedule 9 to the TMA 2004, by the applicable date as specified in paragraph 1(3) of Schedule 3 to the 2022 General Regulations.

Is there anything else I should add in the comments or evidence?

Thanks
« Last Edit: September 19, 2024, 01:12:51 am by D D »

Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #50 on: »
Update!

I have had correspondence from the tribunal.

What happens next it says I have 2 options,

‘I would like the Adjudicator to decide my case now’

Or

‘I would like a Telephone Hearing / Video Hearing’

I recall earlier in this thread someone recommended the second option. I just want to be reassured now the time has come.

What’s the best path to take and what should I prepare?

I will upload what the authority have has uploaded as evidence but I’m guessing this is just going to be the camera footage with a statement.

Thanks a lot!
« Last Edit: September 24, 2024, 02:55:55 pm by D D »

Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #51 on: »
From what I can see there is 20 uploaded items,
Camera certification
Witness statement
Video clip
Photos
Case status report
Pcn
Formal rep
Correspondence
Tro
Not and so on

Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #52 on: »
Quote
‘I would like a Telephone Hearing / Video Hearing

That's the one to choose.

Re the Evidence Pack: as a start, there should be a list of contents and a summary of why they think the Adj. should dismiss the appeal. Post those here and the experts will advise further.

Whose witness statement is included?

Do the copies of the PCN and NtO included match the originals you hold in every particular?
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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #53 on: »
Quote
‘I would like a Telephone Hearing / Video Hearing

That's the one to choose.

Re the Evidence Pack: as a start, there should be a list of contents and a summary of why they think the Adj. should dismiss the appeal. Post those here and the experts will advise further.

Whose witness statement is included?

Do the copies of the PCN and NtO included match the originals you hold in every particular?

Thank you for your prompt response, I will check the points you highlighted and report back.

Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #54 on: »
Reporting back with success  :D

Unfortunately I was late to accept a hearing it automatically went to an adjudicator.

I added some additional comments and pictures of the sign being incorrectly installed. Not being parallel with Oxford Street. It infact sits at a 45Deg angle which is misleading making on coming motorists believe the restriction is on Hulme street which is what it did in my case and made me hesitant to proceed hence turning down the bus restriction road.

Adjudicator's reasons,

It is the Authority’s case that the Appellant’s vehicle was in a bus lane on Oxford Road on 13 May 2024. They rely in evidence on CCTV footage, which opens with the vehicle on Oxford Road, having emerged from Charles Street. It looks as though it was intending to proceed across the junction into Hulme Street, but it then makes a late left turn and proceeds into the bus lane. The Authority also rely on a collection of photographs of the location, showing the relevant signage, which is dated 10 May 2024. I note that there is an advance warning sign on Charles Street prior to the junction and then there are two prohibition signs on Oxford Road. The one on the Charles Street side faces directly ahead and so on approaching the junction along Charles Street it would be side on and not clearly visible. The sign on the opposite side of Oxford Road is angled such that it would be visible from Charles Street, but it is on the corner at the entrance to Hulme Street.

It is the Appellant’s case that the positioning of the latter sign is misleading because it indicates that the restriction applies to Hulme Street. Having regard to the CCTV footage, I am satisfied that the Appellant was misled by the positioning of this sign. I take the view that the positioning of this sign was potentially misleading, it being so close to the entrance to Hulme Street such that it could have been interpreted as applying to Hulme Street. Accordingly, and noting that the Appellant did not see the advance warning sign it having been obscured by a delivery lorry, I am not satisfied that the prohibition signage was clear and unambiguous, and, in those circumstances, the contravention cannot, in my view, be established and I allow the appeal.

The Appellant has raised various procedural points, but there is no need for me to address these


Big thanks for everyone who input into this thread!
If anyone else gets this same fine use the incorrectly installed sign as your defence at tribunal!

Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #55 on: »
Well done :)
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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #56 on: »
Can you give us the TPT Case Number please. We can then download it and keep it.
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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #57 on: »
Can you give us the TPT Case Number please. We can then download it and keep it.

Certainly it’s Case Ref MC00642-2409