Author Topic: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention  (Read 2627 times)

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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #30 on: »
If the online options has this one "the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case" then select it instead. Whatever you select or submit, they have a duty to consider.

It only has the following options to choose, which would be best suited?

I am the registered keeper of this vehicle

I am the registered keeper of this vehicle and the driver at the time of the contravention

I am not the registered keeper of this vehicle but was the driver at the time of the contravention

I was not the owner of the vehicle at the time of the contravention I sold or bought the vehicle before or after the time of the contravention)

We are a Hire and Lease company

Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #31 on: »
@Phantomcrusader or @cp8759

Can you please advise on the above as I’d like to take action today as it’s getting close to end date for rep  :-[

Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #32 on: »
If the online options has this one "the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case" then select it instead. Whatever you select or submit, they have a duty to consider.

It only has the following options to choose, which would be best suited?

I am the registered keeper of this vehicle

I am the registered keeper of this vehicle and the driver at the time of the contravention

I am not the registered keeper of this vehicle but was the driver at the time of the contravention

I was not the owner of the vehicle at the time of the contravention I sold or bought the vehicle before or after the time of the contravention)

We are a Hire and Lease company
Are you sure selecting one of these does not go to a screen with the list of statutory grounds for appeals ?
Select the one above that applies and tell us what happens.
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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #33 on: »
If the online options has this one "the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case" then select it instead. Whatever you select or submit, they have a duty to consider.

It only has the following options to choose, which would be best suited?

I am the registered keeper of this vehicle

I am the registered keeper of this vehicle and the driver at the time of the contravention

I am not the registered keeper of this vehicle but was the driver at the time of the contravention

I was not the owner of the vehicle at the time of the contravention I sold or bought the vehicle before or after the time of the contravention)

We are a Hire and Lease company
Are you sure selecting one of these does not go to a screen with the list of statutory grounds for appeals ?
Select the one above that applies and tell us what happens.

I chose not owner but driver at time of contravention and the following has appeared,

Contravention Code34
Contravention Being in a bus lane (during the hours of operation of the bus lane)

Please use the box below to provide information to support your representation. You can also upload supporting documents to help the Council decide what action to take in relation to this Penalty Charge Notice.
Additional information
Your Notes…

I will enter what has been specified here in the bits section and submit

Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #34 on: »
Submitted the following,

https://flic.kr/p/2q62Lvy

Sorry I’m not very good at arching images
« Last Edit: July 24, 2024, 12:12:10 pm by D D »

Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #35 on: »
I have received correspondence which is attached via the link bellow, thank to your support this far.

They have taken to account from my representation that I have paid. (Which we know I haven’t)

They are now asking when was the payment made so they can investigate this further.

They request documentary evidence within 14 days or payment of £30 within the same time period.

(My representation went past the 50% payment reduction and they are still honouring it)

Appreciate your input in advance!

https://flic.kr/p/2q8tXRA
« Last Edit: August 06, 2024, 01:20:27 pm by D D »

Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #36 on: »
@cp8759
@Incandescent

Hi any idea with the above?

Thanks

Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #37 on: »
@cp8759
@Incandescent

Hi any idea with the above?

Thanks
I looked at what you say are your reps, but there seems to be noting there from yourself, it is all just a listing and description of the statutory grounds for an appeal. Something obviously wrong.

I suggest you write back and tell them that you have not paid the PCN, and never even hinted at payment in the reps. Tell them that your representations text does not seem to appear on their website.

You'd best decide now whether to pay up or take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, so your letter can also say whether you have decided to pay now ans provide proof of payment, or that you will be registering an appeal at TPT, in view of their failure correctly to deal with your representations.
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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #38 on: »
@cp8759
@Incandescent

Hi any idea with the above?

Thanks
I looked at what you say are your reps, but there seems to be noting there from yourself, it is all just a listing and description of the statutory grounds for an appeal. Something obviously wrong.

I suggest you write back and tell them that you have not paid the PCN, and never even hinted at payment in the reps. Tell them that your representations text does not seem to appear on their website.

You'd best decide now whether to pay up or take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, so your letter can also say whether you have decided to pay now ans provide proof of payment, or that you will be registering an appeal at TPT, in view of their failure correctly to deal with your representations.

For the amount of time this has taken from us this far and for more time needed for traffic tribunal I think I might just let this one pass and pay the £30. Seems the more cost effective way this time, if it was a lot more I would put up bit more of a fight. Agree?

Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #39 on: »
Well, of course paying give you closure. On the other hand, it gives them an albeit small sum of money for their incompetence. I know what I would be doing, but it's your decision.
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Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #40 on: »
Well, of course paying give you closure. On the other hand, it gives them an albeit small sum of money for their incompetence. I know what I would be doing, but it's your decision.

Your supportive response enticed me to push further with the following response  ;)

I submitted my representations via the online portal. In my representations, I clearly did not state that I paid the PCN and provided reasons for my challenge.

To date, I have not received any correspondence regarding the outcome of my representation, nor can I locate a record of them on the website when I check the portal.

I will have no choice but to register an appeal at TPT, in view of your failure to correctly deal with my representations.

I await your response to decide my next decision.

Regards

Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #41 on: »
Well, of course paying give you closure. On the other hand, it gives them an albeit small sum of money for their incompetence. I know what I would be doing, but it's your decision.

They really want this £30 don’t they lol, this is their correspondence below I can upload the original doc if preferred?

PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE (PCN)
The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022
Penalty Charge Notice Number: MC33821439
Date given: 30/05/2024 at 18:58
Place given: Oxford Road (Charles Street To Brancaster Road) Vehicle registration: GL73EUO
NOTICE OF REJECTION OF REPRESENTATIONS.
Thank you for your enquiry making representations in connection with the above PCN which we received on 15 August 2024.
The vehicle was recorded by CCTV in a bus gate on Oxford Road between Charles Street and Brancaster Road (Southbound). This bus gate is in operation 6am to 9pm, 7 days a week, the only vehicles permitted to be in the restricted area are buses, taxis, bicycles, and permit holders. As you enter the bus gate there are signs and road markings to indicate the start of the bus gate and an alternative route should have been taken.
I can confirm that the signage which informs drivers that there is a bus gate in operation complies fully with all relevant legislation (The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions). This legislation specifies the signage we must use both at the start of the bus gate and the additional advanced warning signage which is in place on all side roads leading to the Oxford Road corridor. The lines and signs for a bus gate differ from those used to identify a bus lane, the main difference being we are unable to include any road markings (ie coloured red and/or with the legend "Bus Lane"). Bus gates will be marked with standard `no motor vehicles` signs - a red circle with a motorbike above a car inside.
The decisions on where to locate the signs are made by qualified Highways engineers who are experienced in the positioning of road signs to inform drivers to whom they apply.
There are several bus gates on Oxford Road between Hathersage Road and Portland Street. Some of the bus gates are in place in both directions and others only restrict traffic in one direction. For more information on the location of the bus gates and the restrictions in place,

please visit our website: https://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/471/parking_in_public_areas/7420/bus_gates/2
Manchester City Council, in partnership with Transport for Greater Manchester, carried out a comprehensive communication and advertising campaign to make all road users aware of these changes which came into force in October 2017. Warning notices were issued to motorists who contravened the bus gate for six weeks before the restrictions were made `live`. Both Manchester City Council and Transport for Greater Manchester continue to work with satellite navigation companies to improve the information available to update their equipment.
I have carefully considered your case and the Council does not accept that any of the statutory grounds (listed below) or other grounds for representation have been established.
On this occasion I am prepared to accept payment at the discounted charge of £30.00. You must make payment within 21 days of the date of this letter or the charge will continue to increase.
To view images or CCTV footage (where applicable) taken at the time your PCN was issued, please visit: www.manchester.gov.uk/parking
The penalty charge of £30.00 is now payable. This must be paid before the end of the period of 21 days beginning with the date of service of this Notice. See the last page of the Notice for rules relating to service*.
You can pay £60.00. You have 28 days beginning with the date of service of this Notice*.
You must now decide whether to pay the PCN or whether to appeal to an independent adjudicator.
If, after 28 days, you have taken no action, we may send you a Charge Certificate increasing the charge from £60.00 to £90.00. You will then have 14 days to pay the increased charge.
If, after the 14 days, you have not paid the increased charge, we may apply to the County Court to recover the money - plus court costs - from you.
HOW TO PAY
- Online at www.manchester.gov.uk/parking and follow the links to Pay PCN.
- By telephone credit/debit card payments only. Use our automated payment line 0161 234 5006 (24 hours, seven days a week).Please have your vehicle details and PCN number ready.
- In person at any PayPoint, you will need to take your PCN to allow the barcode to be scanned.
Appeals
If you disagree with the council’s decision you can appeal to an adjudicator at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. The adjudicators are independent of the council and their decision is final.
The grounds for appeal are as follows:
• The alleged contravention did not occur.
• Regulation 6(1), (other proceedings pursued) applies i.e. I have received a fixed penalty notice from the Police or criminal proceedings are being pursued for the same contravention.
• I was not the owner of the vehicle in question at the time of the alleged contravention. i.e.
 
a) I was never the owner of the vehicle in question
b) I had ceased to be its owner before the detection date
c) I became its owner after the detection date. (You must supply the name and address of the person to whom the vehicle was disposed of/from whom the vehicle was acquired).
• I was the hirer of the vehicle concerned on the detection date but I am not liable to pay the penalty charge under regulation 5(2) (i.e. I did not sign a statement that I would be liable for penalty charges incurred during the currency of the hiring agreement)
• I was the registered keeper of the vehicle on the detection date but on that date: i) regulation 5(2) applies (vehicle subject to a hire agreement)
ii) regulation 5(3) applies (the vehicle was kept by a vehicle trader), and the recipient was either not a vehicle trader or was a vehicle trader but not the vehicle trader keeping the vehicle, or
• The penalty charge exceeds the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case • Grounds of procedural impropriety.
You can appeal now by visiting the tribunals website: www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/appeal
The website explains what the adjudicator can consider and how to appeal. There is no charge for appealing and costs are not normally awarded. You will need the information below to hand when you begin your appeal.
Notice of Rejection date: 02 September 2024 PCN number(s): MC33821439
Vehicle Registration Mark: GL73EUO Online Code: 98I424
You should appeal within 28 days of this Notice of Rejection (usually 2 working days after the "Notice of Rejection" date above - our website explains this) being served. If you are unable to appeal online you may request a paper form from the Traffic Penalty Tribunal by calling 01625 44 55 99 and leaving your name, address, telephone number, vehicle registration
mark and PCN number.
Costs
The Adjudicator will not normally make an order awarding costs and expenses to either an appellant or to an enforcement authority but may do so where the Adjudicator is of the opinion that one of those parties to the appeal has acted frivolously or vexatiously or that the conduct in making, pursuing or resisting an appeal was wholly unreasonable.
No order for costs would be made without giving the affected party an opportunity of making representations against the making of the order.
Yours sincerely

Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #42 on: »
@cp8759
@Incandescent

Any advice on the new PCN NOR?

Many thanks  :)

Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #43 on: »
Received no fellow support feedback here  :'(
Going to have to pay the fine I guess…

Re: Manchester Council Oxford Road Bus Lane Intervention
« Reply #44 on: »
Received no fellow support feedback here  :'(
Going to have to pay the fine I guess…
Sorry, but we have to do other things from time to time, and give our time freely on this forum.

As I said before, I would take them to the tribunal if it were me, based on their management of the enforcement process. All their NOR tells you, you already know. It would be something of a gamble, and it's your money not mine.
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